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  •  Takes me years and years to make friends (12+ / 0-)

    at least to make friends of whom I would ask favors.  I have lots of acquaintances, but not anyone locally I would ask things of.  Except of course my friends who are helping me raise my son, and that's already quite a bit to ask, so I try very hard not to "over ask".

    The folks I've known long enough to ask things of all live far away. I've only lived here 11 years and 8 of those years I was in an agoraphobic depression where I barely left my house.

    Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

    by a gilas girl on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 08:47:28 AM PDT

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    •  I have a gazillion (10+ / 0-)

      acquaintances, but only a few people I'd call friends.

      However, because I do favors for nearly everyone, they are all happy to be asked to do things to help me. I just have to remember to ask, because I'm so accustomed to doing things for others, I just automatically do my own stuff, too.

      All knowledge is worth having. Check out OctopodiCon to support steampunk learning and fun. Also, on DKos, check out the Itzl Alert Network.

      by Noddy on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 09:04:18 AM PDT

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      •  For me (8+ / 0-)

        the difficulty (and my own hesitation) comes from the wealth gaps I have to live with in my own social circles.  It's really hard to be the poorest one because whenever folks want to do things, I'm excluded in ways they aren't.  Or my friends always ending up paying for me, since I can't afford it and they can, but then I live with the constant awareness that I'm not "pulling my weight" which means I'm in constant sweat equity accounting or just social and personal favor accounting mode.  That's a hard way to live, but money does that to social relationships.

        It's seems I'm never free of the awareness of how much other people are doing for me to be able to participate, since I have so little.  The handful of people with whom I feel comfortable enough to let that imbalance sometimes carry through is very, very limited.  

        This is part of the reason I think that social relationships cost me so much emotional energy: those gaps are hard to live with.  

        Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

        by a gilas girl on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 09:35:06 AM PDT

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        •  i can relate to that (8+ / 0-)

          I'm generally social awkward and trying to make friends can be draining. I also have lived in changing financial circumstances so that I don't really fit anywhere.

          fact does not require fiction for balance (proudly a DFH)

          by mollyd on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 09:43:37 AM PDT

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          •  ...an old neighbor told me... (6+ / 0-)

            ..."People are overrated."

            I know that is an old saying, but it's largely true. The folks that are worth it are those that don't care at all about differences in financial situations or anything else really.

            You have to sift through a bunch of people...and deal with projection, projection, projection until you find the gems that really don't do that crap because they know we all do that crap...even if we try not to...

            Ignorance is bliss only for the ignorant. The rest of us must suffer the consequences.

            by paradise50 on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 10:21:36 AM PDT

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            •  In my experience (5+ / 0-)

              it's not possible not to care at all about differences in financial situations, because those differences are so much a part of contemporary life.  For me what's difficult isn't even the money (though I hate money) or the financial part, it really is the ever present "imbalance".

              The scales aren't comparable, they don't translate well and they lead to such differences in experience, in understanding even in reality itself.  I can't even explain it to people who want to try and "help", because my own experience is so far afield from their's that they can't grasp what the issues are, even though they want to.

              It's very similar to the experience of trying to explain depression to people who have no concept of it.  

              Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

              by a gilas girl on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 11:13:56 AM PDT

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        •  I am among the cash-poorest person of (5+ / 0-)

          my acquaintances and friends.

          None of my friends or acquaintances has ever made me feel bad or less for not being cash-rich because they really rely on the non-cash things I do to help make things happen.

          But I understand how, in a society that values cash, the non-cash contributions are seen as unworthy and the ones lacking cash then feel they are themselves unworthy.

          I wish I could change that.

          All knowledge is worth having. Check out OctopodiCon to support steampunk learning and fun. Also, on DKos, check out the Itzl Alert Network.

          by Noddy on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 10:48:30 AM PDT

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          •  No, you misunderstand, I believe (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            arizonablue, Darryl House, paradise50

            this has nothing to do with other people making me feel bad about those differences.  Most of the people never notice.  It is about how always being on the short end of the cash-strapped continuum takes a toll.

            It's the imbalance, always an imbalance one that's so great there isn't any balancing that is the problem.  

            Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

            by a gilas girl on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 11:06:59 AM PDT

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            •  That's just it - (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              arizonablue, Darryl House, paradise50

              You can call it an imbalance if you want, but what I hear you saying is that you don't value the non-cash contributions you make. You disvalue your contributions so much that you feel you can never achieve parity between your non-cash contributions and the cash used to engage in those activities.

              We, as a society, have forgotten that cash is merely a symbol, and have mistaken the symbol for the object. Cash represents labor, skills, and knowledge, and is a token we receive for our work, our ideas, our efforts.  That some of us are not fairly paid for what we do, and others vastly overpaid compared to their contributions, is a sad reflection on society.

              All knowledge is worth having. Check out OctopodiCon to support steampunk learning and fun. Also, on DKos, check out the Itzl Alert Network.

              by Noddy on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 11:21:44 AM PDT

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              •  I'm sorry that's what you are hearing (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Darryl House, paradise50

                for me, it isn't a question of my not valuing them, which is not something I would EVER say or EVER mean.  I value them highly.  My friends and family value them.  But that doesn't fix the imbalance.  Value doesn't bring balance because the imbalance is so palpable.   I'm also not simply talking about cash, I'm talking about the whole of society and it is a very sad reflection.  But for me, the imbalance I see when I look at how we value contributions does far more than makes me sad; it truly disrupts my own equilibrium.  I live it in a way that others don't appear to and simply saying "value things differently" doesn't fix it, because the problem isn't my value system, it's the imbalance between my value system and society's.  

                Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

                by a gilas girl on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 11:57:17 AM PDT

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                •  but then again (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  paradise50

                  perhaps the problem lies with my inability to express myself clearly.  

                  I'll just stop since I'm not doing a very good job here, but if you are actually hearing what you say you are hearing then I'm a completely ineffective communicator at this point.

                  That's the farthest thing from what I'm talking about or trying to say.

                  I guess that also explains part of my frustration with this.

                  ;-)

                  Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

                  by a gilas girl on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 12:02:02 PM PDT

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                •  That's exactly what I'm talking about (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  paradise50

                  We're saying the exact same thing in different ways.

                  All knowledge is worth having. Check out OctopodiCon to support steampunk learning and fun. Also, on DKos, check out the Itzl Alert Network.

                  by Noddy on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 12:02:53 PM PDT

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                  •  I don't think we are saying (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    paradise50

                    the same thing at all, because you seem to simply wave away the imbalance part, which for me is the key stressor.

                    Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

                    by a gilas girl on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 12:06:58 PM PDT

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                    •  I'm not waving *anything* away (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      paradise50

                      But I see what you call imbalance to be a perception that what you offer to be substantially less than what others offer and you see no way to achieve a balance between them.

                      I used "cash" and "non-cash" because that was the medium you posited in the beginning when you stated you felt bad about others paying your way for events to which you were invited, and that you couldn't achieve a balance between them paying for you and what you could offer them in exchange.

                      If you'd like to use some other metaphor, terminology, or example, please do.

                      All knowledge is worth having. Check out OctopodiCon to support steampunk learning and fun. Also, on DKos, check out the Itzl Alert Network.

                      by Noddy on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 01:25:25 PM PDT

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                      •  the imbalance isn't a perception (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        paradise50

                        at all; it's the defining category of existence.  And I don't think that using alternate terms is going to work; I see that I've wandered into another one of those topics where I'm just on another plane of experience and I'm not able to capture what I mean at all.  

                        Best just to stop.  All I'm doing is frustrating myself now and that's not productive.

                        But thank you for listening. I know it's frustrating when I get like this.

                        Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

                        by a gilas girl on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 01:55:54 PM PDT

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        •  Well stated, and I agree completely. nt (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Darryl House, paradise50

          Americans who vote against their own interests are driven by "the human need to find a strand of significance that will hold everything together that isn't on TV..." (quote is from P. Roth in "Sabbath's Theater")

          by ceebee7 on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 11:53:07 AM PDT

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        •  Are you me? Or... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Darryl House

          ...am I you?  Same trip here.  So many folks have paid my way places and things, that I feel like I will have to re-incarnate hundreds of times to  pay it all back before I can even think about paying it forward.  It's a very strange karma!

          "The war against Bradley Manning is a war against us all." Chris Hedges

          by dharmasyd on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 07:33:01 PM PDT

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