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View Diary: The Stock Market is Not Crazy and the Republicans are Toast (210 comments)

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  •  Most Americans don't have 401(k)s (0+ / 0-)

    and those that do usually only have a few thousand in them.

    If the 10% that owns 90% of all stocks, bonds, and other financial instruments were cashing them out to buy cars, the market would be falling.

    That I choose not to participate in creating misery for workers at home or abroad, and do not share in your belief that every suckers suffering should be something to profit from rather than to oppose, does in fact mean that higher stock prices resulting from the parasitic class playing games with one another do nothing to improve my life or the lives of real people like me.

    Wash. Judge Tells Cops To Return Man’s Marijuana Or Be Found In Contempt

    by JesseCW on Wed May 01, 2013 at 11:07:12 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  That's because most Americans are ineligible (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Deep Texan

      for them because they don't work (retired, too young, unemployed) or don't work for a private sector employer that offers them.

      For those who are eligible, they can be a good element of your retirement savings.

      This:

      That I choose not to participate in creating misery for workers at home or abroad, and do not share in your belief that every suckers suffering should be something to profit from rather than to oppose, does in fact mean that higher stock prices resulting from the parasitic class playing games with one another do nothing to improve my life or the lives of real people like me.
      Says a lot about you and your perspective. Pretty much any human endeavor can be twisted into "creating misery for workers at home or abroad." Practice a religion?  Guilty!  Give to charity A instead of charity B?  Bigot!!

      And any commercial activity whatsoever can be contorted into causing "suckers (sic) suffering." Any person who fails your apparent ideal of being fully self-sufficient, with zero...no...nada... dependency on another human, could be called a member of a "parasitic class."

      Yep. You've got quite the worldview there.  Hope it serves you well on your journey through life.

      •  Most people do not have excess cash to stick (0+ / 0-)

        in a scam that gives 2/3rds of all returns to a management company, while they take all the risk.

        People actually can make mutually advantageous trades of labor and goods.  It's far from impossible.  In fact, that was most of our economic activity for literally tens of thousands of years.

        What you want is for desperately poor people busting their asses working retail to be thrilled that there has been another cutback in hours with no corresponding reduction in workload, forcing them to choose between working for free through their lunch break or becoming homeless.

        You firmly believe they should be thrilled for the chance to sacrifice so that the value of your stocks can increase.

        I will never understand why some of the most fundamentally anti-worker people who have ever lived insist on trying to latch themselves on to a workers party.

        Wash. Judge Tells Cops To Return Man’s Marijuana Or Be Found In Contempt

        by JesseCW on Wed May 01, 2013 at 07:23:06 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You're misinformed (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Deep Texan

          You are sadly and wildly mistaken.

          Specifically...

          You are misinformed about 401(k) plans. Two-thirds of returns?  No.  Not even close.  It's much less. Take 2012 as an example. Average fees were about 1.5 percent. The annual return of the S&P500 was 13.4 percent. That's 11 percent. Not great, but nowhere near the 67 percent you claim.

          Well, you might be thinking, 2012 was an aberration.  No, it wasn't.  

          Taking a 1.5 percent average annual fee and comparing it to the average annual return for the S&P500 since the 401(k) law was passed in 1978 (specifically using the period July 1978 to December 2012) yields an annual S&P500 return of a little over11.2 percent. When compared to that annual fee of 1.5 percent, that would mean that fees consume about 13 percent of returns. Again, not great, but nowhere near your 67 percent confusion.

          Look: I'm aware 401(k) plans only work well for those workers who have the consistent employment, financial discipline, and reasonable enough pay to contribute a substantial amount to their plans over an extended period. If one does that, a 401(k) can be a very good vehicle for funding one's retirement. If not, they're not that helpful. However, you're simply wrong to think of them as some kind of mysterious scam preying on people. That's at odds with reality.

          As for your belief in thinking that an unfettered barter system could work as a large-scale, primary economic feature of any modern, industrialized nation, I can't really help you. You think people are victimized now? Holy moly, if that idea were implemented, just wait.

          As for your imaginings as to what I think, well, I can't really help you there.  You're free to imagine anything.  Reality be damned.

          Have a good day, JesseCW. I hope you can find a way to become a little more open-minded and, perhaps, a little happier. Things aren't as bad as you imagine them to be.

          •  jesse seems pretty biased on this (0+ / 0-)

            the problem is people aren't educated and don't care to educate themselves about these things.

            even a poor person, with some income of course, can save for retirement.  with our tax code and retirement accounts it can be done.  you can can find the sweet spot so that you really have the same amount of take home as usual yet are contributing to a retirement account.

            it can be done.

            -You want to change the system, run for office.

            by Deep Texan on Thu May 02, 2013 at 10:34:28 AM PDT

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