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View Diary: The Problem With Watching MSNBC: The Manipulation of Liberals (254 comments)

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  •  i really hate to watch msnbc anymore... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Ray Pensador, Victor Ward, fishwars

                                it really is no better than watching fox...........wtf

    ''A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned to walk forward.'' FDR

    by lostinamerica on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 12:10:33 PM PDT

    •  I really wish I could stomach it. I gave up (6+ / 0-)

      network news years ago, then I gave up CNN, then I hanged in there with MSNBC, but like you, I can't handle more that 5 to 15 minutes before I turn it off in disappointment.

    •  That's more foolish than voting for Nader in 2000 (24+ / 0-)

      How on earth can you believe that watching msnbc is no better than watching fox?

      Have you not noticed all the lies and manipulation from fox, their imperviousness to reality, how they enabled the tea-party's contribution to our present gridlock in Washington?

      There are problems with msnbc, though I think this diary overstates them. But Scarborough's pretty useless, and Matthews is intermittently useless. On the other hand Maddow, Hayes and Harris-Perry break important stories and look at things in greater depth than almost all of their competition.

      If you want to suss out what's really going on, what's most important in the US today, the easiest way is the internet - so you can read the Nation, Mother Jones, Matt Taibbi, Paul Krugman, and dozens of other sources. Considering that Cable News is both fighting for eyeballs from an ADHD public, and is owned and controlled by corporations, MSNBC do a far better job than their competition, and a better job than they were doing five years ago.

      "Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth" Samuel Johnson

      by Brecht on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 01:01:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  But like FOX (5+ / 0-)

        they sometimes go into propaganda mode and I resent that.  I can tell when they turn off their brains and turn them over to the Democratic Party spin machine.  

        You get better commentary from the Comedy network.

        •  MSNBC is moving in the right direction, though (15+ / 0-)

          Ed Schultz was the most predictable left cheerleader in their evening line-up, and he's just been replaced with one of their most insightful, thoughtful and fair-minded analysts.

          They do sometimes go propaganda. Unfortunately, Fox has shown that's a very effective way to engage viewers (well, rah-rah + drama + coherent worldview), and MSNBC are still playing catch-up in the ratings war.

          You get better commentary from Stewart and Colbert than most anchors. Also, they feed insight to young people who aren't following news, too. But the best anchors on MSNBC dive into subjects and cover them at length, sometimes repeatedly - so MSNBC enlarges the conversation more than Stewart and Colbert.

          "Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth" Samuel Johnson

          by Brecht on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 01:56:10 PM PDT

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        •  If you mean Colbert and Stewart, I disagree (0+ / 0-)

          I mean, they're funny and they do irony better than most and do a good job exposing political bullshit, but ultimately, they're jesters, not activists.

          •  Jesters are an far more important than you realize (0+ / 0-)

            But you're right, they're not activists. In fact, being activists would ruin their function. We all have a part to play, but truth tellers -- who may gourd oxes across the political spectrum (I suspect they'd both have some fun with many of the opinions regularly expressed on DailyKos...and this diary too) -- are an absolute necessity for sane political discourse.

            Now residing in Van Nuys, but "LaBobsterofVanNuys" isn't funny and besides, Van Nuys is really part of Los Angeles

            by LABobsterofAnaheim on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 10:23:38 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  rAmen Brecht (19+ / 0-)

        Who else is talking about the erosion of women's rights more than Rachel? What about Rev. Al and voting rights? Ed and labor? srsly these stories need eyes and you aren't going to get them if you don't broadcast it.

        MSNBC is doing really good stuff and some crap. Big deal. Even Chris Matthews serves a purpose in giving permission to a certain demographic of older white men permission to consider a liberal position. They see him as one of them.

        Nothing is perfect, but all in all MSNBC is a net plus and a balance to not just Fox but it's new acolyte CNN.

        "The scientific nature of the ordinary man is to go on out and do the best you can." John Prine

        by high uintas on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 01:39:55 PM PDT

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      •  What you wrote points to the exact problem I'm (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        lostinamerica, Dianna

        describing in the diary.

        •  But you tell less than half the story. Your diary (14+ / 0-)

          rests on the premise:

          In the final analysis, MSNBC is not a "Liberal" cable channel, but just another corporate shill.
          In fact, MSNBC is a liberal cable channel, and another corporate shill, and a diverse group of individuals anchoring different shows (supported by teams of individuals), who are trying to do their individual best jobs at telling stories that America needs to hear.

          You've got a good brain. Why are you oversimplifying so much? Aren't you trying to push a small part of the truth, just as you accuse MSNBC of doing?

          Yes, sure, MSNBC could do better. But they're doing better than they used to, they're doing better than all their direct competition: your diary would be more credible if you acknowledged that.

          "Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth" Samuel Johnson

          by Brecht on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 03:01:29 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The overall effect of the network is detrimental. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Cynic in seattle, lostinamerica
            •  I disagree, and also believe it's getting better. (9+ / 0-)

              Liberals are at a disadvantage, faced with Republican unity. Because many of us think for ourselves.

              MSNBC are doing a decent job, of getting those who lean left, those who always support Obama, and those who question everything, to look in the same direction. If they keep doing that, it will help the Democratic Party win more elections, and maybe we can get our broken government to work soon.

              In the long term, the solutions to the harder problems plaguing our system will have to come from the progressive caucus, and other organizations committed to real democracy.

              I watch Maddow and Hayes more than all the rest put together. The two of them are doing a lot more to help progressives than hinder them.

              "Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth" Samuel Johnson

              by Brecht on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 03:44:42 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  You're expecting it to be something it cannot be. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Brecht, New Rule

              The network you're demanding could never be on commercial cable, though I might join you in wishing that it could be.
              At the same time, you fail to realize that, even on the DKos political spectrum, you come across as pretty far left and radical -- not that there's anything wrong with that, seriously.

              I'm not a radical in your sense -- my idea of a just society might be socialist, but it's far more Fabian (H.G. Welles, G.B. Shaw type) than where I suspect you're coming from -- but we need people like you for all kinds of reasons, even if I might disagree with you pretty regularly. At the same time, however, I wish you could learn to perceive some shades of gray. It's as if you really think that, if MSNBC did not exist it would be replaced by the Amy Goodman/Noam Chomsky/Matt Taibbi/Cornel West channel and would be watched and adored by the same number of people. You're pretty out of touch with the way most people think. Even the glory days of American journalism, the Ed Murrow/Fred Friendly era and what not, were pretty narrowly defined. People here tend to view the past as a far rosier, and vastly more leftish, place than it was really was. It was more Keynesian, to be sure, but that was pretty much the ONLY thing that was better than today.

              Now residing in Van Nuys, but "LaBobsterofVanNuys" isn't funny and besides, Van Nuys is really part of Los Angeles

              by LABobsterofAnaheim on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 10:36:23 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Typical Dem/DK/MSNBC misdirect. (0+ / 0-)

        The choice is not Fox or MSNBC (or Current).

        The choice is Amy Goodman or Rachel Maddow.

        The choice is Black Agenda Report or DK.

        •  Do you have anything more interesting.... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          LABobsterofAnaheim, sviscusi

          ....to say than sloganeering? I'm quite sympathetic to the anti-corporate agenda and I'm an anarcho-syndicalist at heart, but so much of the left in the US is in disarray because it's a bunch of childish shit. Empty sloganeering, conspiracy theories, woo, and no actual plans. Meanwhile, the center-left, like Daily Kos, has actually got some results.

          •  Nicely said. (0+ / 0-)

            I truly respect radicals who understand that the world hasn't caught up to you quite yet. (Even if I'm not sure it should ever COMPLETELY catch up.)

            Now residing in Van Nuys, but "LaBobsterofVanNuys" isn't funny and besides, Van Nuys is really part of Los Angeles

            by LABobsterofAnaheim on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 10:38:20 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  I agree... (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Brecht, Aquarius40, high uintas, JohnB47

        anyone drawing parallels between MSNBC and Fox must be smoking something (and not the good stuff). It's impossible, with the exception of PBS, to not have corporate interests color the news the corporate-owned news channel is presenting. While I do wish MSNBC would go even further in revealing the true corruption of our political system, it's a relief that we even have MSNBC considering the right wing takeover of media over the last 25 years. I disagree with those saying the opinion hosts (Matthews, Maddow, O'Donnell, Schultz etc) are nothing more than apologists for the President. Maddow has been outspoken that she didn't support Pres. Obama in 2008 and she continually calls out Democrats...it's just that in comparison for the (rightful) ass whipping the MSNBC lineup gives republicans, they may come of as mindless democratic apologists and mouthpieces...when that's not true at all.

        I think it would be a revelation to have a person in the media taking all politicians to task, left, right, up or down...I hope someday that actually happens. In the meantime, PBS, great Internet news and blogs and yes, MSNBC is at least sane, at least intelligent and at least not the absolute joke that Fox is.

        To be blunt, if you do not suffer from seriously diminished mental capacity or the personality disorder that is right wing extremism and still vote Republican...I'd double check on the two previously mentioned conditions.

        by jellin76 on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 03:59:45 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You summarize what this diary's missing. All true. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          high uintas, JohnB47

          There are many broken systems in the US, adding up to a clusterfuck: Our "free" market, our media, our government and everything in it (esp. the republican party). All of these need fixing. Given all these constraints, I see MSNBC as part of the solution.

          It's hard to know which problems to fix first, or which are remotely fixable, as things stand. I'd love to see less money corrupting government. But if we can pull things back from the right margin; and pull our representatives from working for the 1%, and get them to listen more to their constituents - then at least we might get the system to move forward a little. This much, MSNBC is trying to do.

          "Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth" Samuel Johnson

          by Brecht on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 04:37:47 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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