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View Diary: Whither the Sixth Amendment? (30 comments)

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  •  The 'right' to an attorney is meaningless if (0+ / 0-)

    the government can simply ignore its invocation.

    Please tell me what the 'right to an attorney' means in such a case.

    •  Given the context, we're talking about the (0+ / 0-)

      duration of the Miranda Exemption.  (up to 48h)

      Nevermind the slippery slope of if 48, why not 72 or 144?

      Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
      I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
      —Spike Milligan

      by polecat on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 10:46:23 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Actually, we're not. All the Miranda Public (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LeftyAce

        Safety Exception does is give the government time to question a suspect without advising him or her of his or her rights.

        The Miranda Public Safety Exception does not give the governemtn carte blanche to deny someone the right to an attorney.

        Unless we have entered a new Lewis Carroll realm where, as the White Rabbit might say, words can mean whatever you want them to mean and the 'right to an attorney' means you get an attorney when we say you can have one, not when you request one.

        •  I hear what you're saying, but do you hear what (0+ / 0-)

          I'm saying:

          That knowing to ask for an attorney completely trumps everything, including the intent behind the Public Safety Exemption.

          Someone didn't think that out all the way.

          Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
          I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
          —Spike Milligan

          by polecat on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 11:06:43 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Again, I'm not an attorney, so these are a (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            polecat

            layperson's observations.

            The case that established the Public Safety Exception (Quarles vs. New York, 1984) was not a unanimous ruling. It was a 6-3 decision with vigorous dissent. Because the PSE creates a slippery slope whereby authorities can compel self-incrimination under the guise of protecting a nebulous public safety.

            It means something to say that citizens have the right to an attorney if, upon invocation of that right by a citizen, the government ignores its invocation. Why not dispense with the mumbo-jumbo and simply say the truth: You no longer have a right to an attorney. (Small matter that James Madison would be spinning in his grave.)

            •  TL;DR: It's hard to balance the public need vs. (0+ / 0-)

              the individual.  And we still don't have it right.

              Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
              I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
              —Spike Milligan

              by polecat on Tue Apr 30, 2013 at 11:20:42 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

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