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View Diary: White House Meeting on Arctic Media Blackout (143 comments)

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  •  wrong thinking (1+ / 0-)
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    Roadbed Guy

    the richest, most carbon intensive countries are the difficult ones, All the other ones are already way way better than places like Germany or the US. You do not need to remove cars from societies that have none. Mali is already decarbonized because they never carbonized (yet).

    If Germany can do it then everyone can do it. And as you say they´re trying. I agree, ten years is somewhat unrealistic, but in thirty years they aim to have reduced their fossil carbon use from 12 to 3 PJ/a.

    Noone knows if they can pull it off but we all better should hope they will. However, if the rest of the world waits til 2050 to see if the germans were able to do it then everything will be futile.

    •  I don't think that a country can decarbonize (0+ / 0-)

      if it has never carbonized.

      Just like I've been told it's not really a boycott if you never patronized the place in question in the first place . .. .

      In any event, the whole point is more or less moot considering that virtually the entire energy-consuming world is doubling down on coal, constructing new power plants that are intended for 40 to 60 year lifetimes (Germany claims otherwise for themselves, I suppose we will have to see about that!).

      China is getting into fracking big time so that will ameliorate their coal-based emissions somewhat, but hardly in the manner needed

      Other than that, there aren't too many bright spots out there.

      •  get that point (3+ / 0-)
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        johanus, rovertheoctopus, Roadbed Guy

        I find it just intriguing that everyine throws their hands up and says it is impossible, when we have actually a large number of countries who are living with far far less human carbon footprint that the US or even the Europeans.

        There is an interesting graphic, Id like to point you to, here, showing the correlation between their forms of a Human Development Index and Ecological Footprint. The bad joke in this discussion is that we have all the countries around who are having quite a high development but not nearly the destructiveness as the US and others have, yet people in the US at least seem wilfully blind to it.

        Cuba is on there too, on the cusp with one of the highest HDI/footprint ratios. Cuba is a dictatorship of course but this isnt about political system but about consumption structure of the society. Cuba is a perfectly civilized country - it just doesnt have the gross and planet-destroying wastage habits of the US and Abu Dhabi. You could try to find Costa Rica too on there if you wanted to avoid the politics distraction that mentioning Cuba will bring. We have all that - these people live too, and there is nothing, really nothing stopping all the global ressource wasters from living like that and preserving the planet, apart from that they dont want to.

        That is whats typically left ouit of the "it cant technically be done" discussion. It need not be done on todays level of waste. Thats also what you see on the German plan: they will have a primary energy usage in 2050 that is 50% LOWER than today, regardless of source. They arent planning on becoming poor! We can be fully civilized and fully equitable WITHOUT the enormous waste of today´s lifestyle.

        Its not technically unfeasible. The will is lacking, that is all.

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