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View Diary: Republican obstruction, White House timidity, and a broken government (223 comments)

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  •  if the Dems hadn't helped kneecap (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    3goldens, JVolvo, PhilJD

    filibuster reform we wouldn't have needed 60 votes to get something done.

    you know that. we all know that.

    Banking on the American people to be able to sort all this out and declare the adult in the room the winner is a very big bet. -Digby

    by Boogalord on Fri May 03, 2013 at 11:20:55 AM PDT

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    •  the filibuster reform bills (0+ / 0-)

      wouldn't have prevented filibusters. in fact forcing republicans to filibuster live could have had the opposite effect than what we anticipated.

      none of the proposals would have ended republican obstructionism.

      and that's that.  you can blame Dems or you can blame the real culprits.  

      your choice.

      -You want to change the system, run for office.

      by Deep Texan on Fri May 03, 2013 at 11:26:48 AM PDT

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      •  how do you figure? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        3goldens, JVolvo

        forcing the R's to filibuster live, with the cameras on them for all the bills they do it to, would do so much more to paint the GOP as obstructionists and the Dems as "the adult in the room" as so many "pragmatists" insist is the true path to victory.

        filibuster reform would not have done away with the filibuster, but would make the filibuster process more visible to the general public. so, instead of the story being being Manchin-Toomy bill was killed by turncoat ConservaDems worth nothing to any self-respecting "liberal" party, it could have been plain to see that it was filibustered by some dumbass Republican congressman talking stupid on the floor for hours.

        i have not the faintest fucking clue how you think "it could have the opposite effect that we wanted" but it is pretty illustrative of how your knee-jerk reaction to any kind of fight on the part of Dems is "it might not work so we shouldn't do it!"

        are you afraid that live Republican filibusters would be devastating displays of effective Republican speechmaking? or.... something?

        Banking on the American people to be able to sort all this out and declare the adult in the room the winner is a very big bet. -Digby

        by Boogalord on Fri May 03, 2013 at 11:49:16 AM PDT

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        •  could have went that way (0+ / 0-)

          or could have went the way of Rand's filibuster.

          however, that doesn't mean we would have won the votes.

          get my point? winning the votes for the legislation you want is all it's about.

          -You want to change the system, run for office.

          by Deep Texan on Fri May 03, 2013 at 12:06:19 PM PDT

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          •  Rand Paul filibustered Obama's drone policy (0+ / 0-)

            way to leave out all of the context. i'm going to assume you're deathly afraid of the cutting Republican filibuster oration we would have had to endure on the Manchin-Toomey bill. surely it would have all blown up in our faces.

            you really aren't in favor of the Dems taking any political risks, ever, are you? why are you so obsessed with the idea of complete conservative dominance over liberal ideas? because Fox News says mean things so that makes it "reality"? it's sad.

            Banking on the American people to be able to sort all this out and declare the adult in the room the winner is a very big bet. -Digby

            by Boogalord on Sat May 04, 2013 at 11:47:10 AM PDT

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