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View Diary: "Socialism has never happened before." (92 comments)

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  •  I think the problem is (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sebastianguy99

    most people don't want the government or the people to own the means of production. Myself included. Regulated capitalism is the only proven system that actually got this world to such a high level of development - high standard of living, high life expectancy, incredibly advanced medicine, science, etc.

    Why would we want to change from what works to something most people don't want, and something that most likely doesn't work?

    This is science fiction for the future, and I hope I never see a future where everything is nationalized and some "people" own my stuff.

    •  Would you care to share with us -- (0+ / 0-)
      I hope I never see a future where everything is nationalized and some "people" own my stuff.
      -- how much of the means of production you own?  Do you own a controlling share of any of the Fortune 500 corporations, for instance?

      "Do something pretty while you can" -- Stuart Murdoch

      by Cassiodorus on Sun May 05, 2013 at 02:53:27 PM PDT

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      •  It's not about that (0+ / 0-)

        Those who created the business have the natural right to own it, not anyone else, not some public, not some government. Additionally it only helps that business is be owned and led by those who have a stake in it succeeding really well. Government producing and stifling competition leads to the drab garbage that came out of Soviet Union.

        I know, I know, Soviet Union is not supposed to be an example of Socialism. But Soviet Union is a great example of a government owning the means of production. The stuff that government produced was subpar garbage. From the Clothing to the Cars to the Electronics. Something that would never be on the level of even Walmart Quality. Yes, that's right.

        The people who come up with the idea of how to produce something, should get the chance to produce it and reap the benefits. Otherwise you don't have the incentive to work like a maniac to produce it, and all you get is mediocre garbage. And eventually mediocre garbage falls apart like Soviet Union did.

        •  You mean -- (0+ / 0-)
          Those who created the business have the natural right to own it, not anyone else, not some public, not some government.
          like the working class whose members built the building, staffed the positions, and made the machines which they used to make the products?

          "Do something pretty while you can" -- Stuart Murdoch

          by Cassiodorus on Sun May 05, 2013 at 07:25:17 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  no (0+ / 0-)

            I mean the person who had the idea and funded it. If all you had was just workers, they wouldn't know what to build. Sorry, just the facts.

            •  "Workers wouldn't know what to build." (0+ / 0-)

              How condescending, and wrong.

              "Do something pretty while you can" -- Stuart Murdoch

              by Cassiodorus on Sun May 05, 2013 at 08:08:28 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  The person/people who had the idea is/are not (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Cassiodorus, WB Reeves

              necessarily the same as the person or people who fund it. Usually they are not. Creative people are typically employees of the owners, who are often random stockholders if it's a public company. The initial capitalists are often professional investors, not inventors. Of course, this isn't always the case.

              Gondwana has always been at war with Laurasia.

              by AaronInSanDiego on Sun May 05, 2013 at 09:07:25 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I am not necessarily talking about one particular (0+ / 0-)

                idea, or a product. It could be the general thrust of a company which enables people to create and develop. Of course I was simplifying the idea.

                But the evidence of individuals driving a lot of the current technology / industry is all around us. Sure the government should encourage and regulate it, but to take over is absurd, unfair, and well historically bad.

        •  I personally am not persuaded by (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          WB Reeves

          the idea that there is any sort of "natural right" to own a business. I think that line of thinking is more religious than anything else. Your arguments about the pragmatic benefits are more reasonable, I think, although I think they are a bit simplistic.

          Gondwana has always been at war with Laurasia.

          by AaronInSanDiego on Sun May 05, 2013 at 09:04:12 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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