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View Diary: Abbreviated Pundit Round-up (122 comments)

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  •  I don't think they ever signed a peace treaty. Nt (3+ / 0-)

    "We're now in one of those periods when the reality of intense pressure on the middle class diverges from long-held assumptions of how the American bargain should work" --James Fallows

    by Inland on Sun May 05, 2013 at 05:03:20 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  That's true (0+ / 0-)

      The sticking point since '67 has been Israel's demand to hold on to the Golan Heights, which it seized from Syria during the Six Day War and which it claims is essential to its security.

      Syria wants its land back.

      When the union's inspiration /Through the workers' blood shall run /There can be no power greater /Anywhere beneath the sun /Solidarity Forever!

      by litho on Sun May 05, 2013 at 05:09:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Syria wants? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        US Blues, lostboyjim, agoldnyc

        A whole bunch of stuff, like half it's population dead, missiles for the terrorists they support, more economic aid from Russia, the US to stay out of its affairs, Saddam back in power, the Golan Heights......

        I'm from the Elizabeth Warren wing of the Democratic Party

        by voicemail on Sun May 05, 2013 at 06:12:50 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Something tells me that even in the unlikely (6+ / 0-)

          event that a liberal secular government were to emerge from the Syrian civil war, even it would want Golan back.

          People don't like having their things stolen by military force.

          When the union's inspiration /Through the workers' blood shall run /There can be no power greater /Anywhere beneath the sun /Solidarity Forever!

          by litho on Sun May 05, 2013 at 06:46:32 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  But Jim DeMint and the Neocons (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            litho, happymisanthropy

            Still believe that US hard power can install a friendly puppet regime that will not seek to regain the Golan, not press for resolution of the Palestinian Refugee situation, and allow for US controls of pipelines carrying Iraqi oil to the med.

            Where is the Syrian Chalabi?

            •  Benghazi! (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              billlaurelMD

              And of course if we facilitate an al Qaeda takeover of Syria, the new rulers will love us...

              /Graham logic.

              When the union's inspiration /Through the workers' blood shall run /There can be no power greater /Anywhere beneath the sun /Solidarity Forever!

              by litho on Sun May 05, 2013 at 07:08:41 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  DeMint is being irresponsible (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                litho

                He knows that the Islamist anti-western Syrian rebels are the best organized, best equipped, least corrupt and most effective elements of the opposition.

                It the Assad regime were to collapse tomorrow, the Islamists would take power.  

                And nobody has a clue how to prevent that, short of a full scale sequel to the Iraq war.  Epic fail.

                And DeMint would gleefully blame the president.

                what happened to domestic politics stopping at the shoreline?

                •  Yes (0+ / 0-)

                  DeMint was responsible as a senator, a paragon of responsibility, so that earned his political capital to be less so now that he heads the shadow government. We have to learn not to turn over rocks because of what crawls out.  

                  I'm from the Elizabeth Warren wing of the Democratic Party

                  by voicemail on Sun May 05, 2013 at 08:25:50 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  Not only "irresonsible" (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  whizdom

                  but "Deminted".

                  "I'm totally pro-choice in the matter of abortion. But of course I'm also so radically pro-life that I think every person from birth onward must have full and affordable access to healthcare." - Gail Collins

                  by gritsngumbo on Sun May 05, 2013 at 08:50:23 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  Then they shouldn't have attacked Israel in 1967. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            lostboyjim

            That's what happens when you lose a war you started.

            For if there is a sin against life, it consists perhaps not so much in despairing of life as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this life. - Albert Camus

            by Anne Elk on Sun May 05, 2013 at 08:39:39 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Not quite true (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              litho

              In any sense.  Not that it matters.  

            •  While I can understand, though disagree (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              aufklaerer

              with, a historical argument that Egypt started the Six Day War, this is absolutely the first time ever I've seen the accusation that Syria started it.*

              What did they do?  Park their airplanes on the landing fields in a hostile manner, forcing the Israelis to destroy them before they could take off?

              *Ok, I lied.  Back in Hebrew school I was exposed to the Zionist propaganda that undifferentiated "Arabs started the war!"  But that was jingoistic nationalism, not a serious historical argument...

              When the union's inspiration /Through the workers' blood shall run /There can be no power greater /Anywhere beneath the sun /Solidarity Forever!

              by litho on Sun May 05, 2013 at 11:09:17 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  There were numerous (0+ / 0-)

                skirmishes on the Northern armistice line for years before.    the IDF was pushing North through the plains below the heights.  Great efforts to get to the headwaters of the Dan river.  Some skirmishes, mostly artilliery exchanges, got quite hot.  Right before Israel attacked the Egyptian Air Force pre-emptively, or by choice,  there was an air to air combat between Syria and Israel, which the Syrians lost.  

                There were no Syrian Army incursions into Israel of any significance.

                Most of the action in the war was in the south and West, the Syrian army stayed put.   Syria agreed to the cease fire, and 4 hours later, Dayan attacked and won the heights.  

      •  golan heights (0+ / 0-)

        The problem is that they're high, and Israel is about the size of New Jersey. I'm not an artillery expert, but Markos and anyone who is can tell you how much of the nation is within artillery range of the heights.

        The BBC says "Syrian artillery regularly shelled the whole of northern Israel from 1948 to 1967 when Syria controlled the Heights" http://www.bbc.co.uk/... and notes that Damascus is also clearly visible from the heights

        "Your victory has demonstrated that no person anywhere in the world should not dare to dream of wanting to change the world for a better place." -- Mandela

        by agoldnyc on Sun May 05, 2013 at 11:02:10 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  From Wikipedia (0+ / 0-)
          On Israeli settlements on the Golan Heights and in Hebron, in a 1976 interview with Rami Tal, as quoted in Associated Press reports (11 May 1997)
          Along the Syria border there were no farms and no refugee camps — there was only the Syrian army... The kibbutzim saw the good agricultural land ... and they dreamed about it... They didn't even try to hide their greed for the land... We would send a tractor to plow some area where it wasn't possible to do anything, in the demilitarized area, and knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot. If they didn't shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance further, until in the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot. And then we would use artillery and later the air force also, and that's how it was...The Syrians, on the fourth day of the war, were not a threat to us.
          On pre-1967 clashes with the Syrians, in a 1976 interview with Rami Tal, as quoted in The New York Times and Associated Press reports (11 May 1997)

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