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View Diary: Has the 'Gay-Rights Movement' been Hijacked by The Fight For Marriage Equality? (108 comments)

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  •  I was responding to this: (0+ / 0-)
    When it comes to marriage-equality, where are the arguments about the social-security benefits, or the legal rights of a spouse that are especially critical when the other spouse is in the hospital and important decisions need to be made?
    These are very basic arguments that have been made to advance marriage equality. I see lots of people making these arguments. I see gay rights organizations making them as well.

    I understand the argument that marriage equality is taking up too much time and effort. To that, I might argue that other issues, such as ENDA and gay-inclusive immigration reform, will become easier to deal with in a United States that has full marriage equality. But I agree that the issues the diarist brought up are quite pressing indeed.

    I don't mind if you're straight. Just don't flaunt it in public.

    by Chrislove on Mon May 06, 2013 at 06:02:43 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Two points (3+ / 0-)

      (a) I didn't see that point re SS and marriage but

      (b) I don't see that as defeating the thesis of the diary or explaining the over the top reaction to it

      I think your last paragraph is wishful thinking

      Class and race and other issues due exist, and they have been ignore forever. The plight of suffering abroad has been ignored forever.

      I don't see why it will suddenly become more likely to be addressed after marriage equality

      If anything its almost certain not to be. We have both historic analogues such as the black civil rights movement that demonstrates this as well as behavior of gay orgs and finally we know that some of the people involved are conservagays etc that make up that support

      Gays aren't a monolith. Once they get what they want, a large part of those supporting gay rights right now will ignore what's happening to gays not like them.

      This is the history of this country and its present.

      For what you say to happen would be a sea change greater than gay rights.

      There's no incentive for it after marriage equality

      I hope I am wrong. I doubt I am.

      •  I am not saying that class and race don't exist (0+ / 0-)

        Queer people of color are at a significant disadvantage in this society, and no, that's not likely to change post-marriage equality. I wasn't trying to claim that it would change. I do, however, believe that certain legislative items such as ENDA and gay-inclusive immigration reform very well may be easier to tackle in a United States that has full marriage equality. I was not, in any way, trying to make a broad statement that all LGBT problems are going to vanish in a country with marriage equality. Obviously, no. Some of the "other issues," however, likely will be easier. And that may be optimistic thinking. It's kind of mind-boggling that we don't have ENDA already.

        I don't mind if you're straight. Just don't flaunt it in public.

        by Chrislove on Mon May 06, 2013 at 06:16:45 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Also: (0+ / 0-)
        I don't see that as defeating the thesis of the diary or explaining the over the top reaction to it
        I didn't say it did, and I'm not trying to explain the reaction to the diary. I did ask what the diarist's larger argument was, but otherwise my comment really was about those generalizations he made. I really do get that there are issues other than marriage equality which do involve class and race that are not adequately addressed. I do, however, think that marriage equality is an extremely important struggle that has really begun to get traction in this country, and I do think that winning this struggle will grease the wheels for even more, broader victories down the road. But yes, there are some systemic issues that will continue to be ignored. You and I are not in disagreement on that.

        I don't mind if you're straight. Just don't flaunt it in public.

        by Chrislove on Mon May 06, 2013 at 06:44:25 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  PS (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Richard Lyon, alexforgue, blueoasis

      for a ghost of christmas future example

      one of the great "heroes" of the gay pop culture is Dan Savage, who in one of his moments of being frank said at one point that once gay marriage happens it will be over as far as gay rights because we will have achieved what we want to achieve

      That "We" obviously didn't include all gays.

      •  Dan Savage will (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        alexforgue, blueoasis, bruh1

        then have to find a new meal ticket and that will be an economic crisis.

      •  I am not in disagreement that (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bruh1

        there is a serious question about what will happen to the movement after full marriage equality is achieved. I indicated that in my original comment. Nor am I in disagreement that there is a very serious LGBT homelessness and poverty problem. My comment was mostly in response to the paragraphs I highlighted, which I thought were painting a pretty broad brush about the movement and the arguments in favor of marriage equality.

        I don't mind if you're straight. Just don't flaunt it in public.

        by Chrislove on Mon May 06, 2013 at 06:24:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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