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View Diary: "Our Government has No Business in Space." True, False, It Depends (100 comments)

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  •  Too late. We've fucked it up and will get (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW, Batya the Toon

    shaken heavily back in population and technology sooner than we think.  Hence it is VITAL we consider ways to avoid the potential extinction or second dark ages of our species by pushing space exploration and STEM education all the harder.

    And we sail and we sail and we never see land, just the rum in the bottle and a pipe in my hand...

    by Mortifyd on Mon May 06, 2013 at 08:17:21 PM PDT

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    •  If we don't change (0+ / 0-)

      We will fuck up any place we go. I don't think it is too late, but I'll admit that once people figure out where we're heading, it likely will be. So, who's going to have a nice new home on Mars? The wealthy class, of course. The same ones who are fucking up our planet. Shall I make a list of who will be on that flight?

      No, let's push to save the earth so that our less fortunate and not so wealthy offspring will have something to look forward to.

      "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

      by ZhenRen on Mon May 06, 2013 at 08:31:24 PM PDT

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      •  well, not really - mars isn't comfortable (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Batya the Toon

        You can't just use up the air - there's not enough.  You can't just make air or import an atmosphere.  So the people who will actually LIVE on mars will be the construction workers, miners and the scientists trying to develop the tech to make the nice mars cushy homes when the rich really have no where else to go because earth is shaking them off and uncomfortable.'

        Space will be colonised by nerds and the working class, paid for by the rich.  So make sure your kid is a nerd or a specialist in underwater construction or mining science and technology today.

        And we sail and we sail and we never see land, just the rum in the bottle and a pipe in my hand...

        by Mortifyd on Mon May 06, 2013 at 09:29:58 PM PDT

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        •  Good luck with that plan (0+ / 0-)

          Bottom line is most humans are goners if we don't make an effort to save what we have.

          "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

          by ZhenRen on Mon May 06, 2013 at 10:03:50 PM PDT

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          •  all humans are goners at some point (0+ / 0-)

            we're mortal.  Agreed, we should do what we can to reverse the damage we've done, but to assume that rich people are actually going to ditch us and build a colony with their own hands and no fun stuff for them to exclude other people from shows me you don't know anything about rich people.

            They are NOT about to build and live in early mars habitats - that's for people to build them things they will live in and to have people to exclude when there is enough to entertain them.  

            They have to be SAFE first - so Chaz can't slam the airlock and kill everyone on accident because the keys to his space car got taken away.  So Mumzy can't accidentally kill them all blitzed out of her mind on booze and boredom because there are no exclusive stores on mars.  Because Poppy can't play golf when there is no country club to show off how rich he is to the other rich guys.  All that has to be built first - THEN the rich people will move off world.

            Until then, it's just gated communities in more remote places on earth and bodyguards to keep the riffraff away as society collapses around the rest of us - those that cater to them already will be fine because they will be high enough on the food chain as suppliers of "necessary goods" from a Rich POV to be reachable from their guarded mountain estates.

            And we sail and we sail and we never see land, just the rum in the bottle and a pipe in my hand...

            by Mortifyd on Mon May 06, 2013 at 10:20:29 PM PDT

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            •  And now you instruct me (0+ / 0-)

              about rich people.

              One way or another, elites (perhaps not all wealthy, but still nevertheless most will be well connected) are going to be the ones who end up colonizing space... if we live long enough to see that happen.

              Neither you nor I know the future. The bottom line is most people aren't going anywhere, and we should be doing our best to keep human habitats on this planet, the one most people are stuck with, from being destroyed by climate change.

              That's a no brainer. And that's where we should be putting our greatest effort, and spending our research dollars.

              "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

              by ZhenRen on Mon May 06, 2013 at 10:33:33 PM PDT

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              •  I'm not "instructing you" so you can put that away (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Batya the Toon

                I'm just extrapolating from pretty much all recorded human history that the wealthy do not dirty their hands building their paradise - they hire people to do that for them.  So insisting they are going to bum rush off to mars and live in tin shacks trying to remember to check the greenhouse and close the airlocks because they are one accident from death is just patently ridiculous.

                As I stated, I AGREE that we need to do what we can to keep earth habitable - but without looking outward we WILL die out as a species eventually - either by our own hand or some delightful chunk of rock slamming into our planet because gravity works.  Either situation is bad for the human race as a whole.

                So why not work on both earth and colonies for the sake of our species now, before we are so scientifically illiterate that rockets become a myth and we just slowly choke here in our own shit?  Why would you rather doom us all to potential extinction because there's been  no worldwide peoples revolution?

                And we sail and we sail and we never see land, just the rum in the bottle and a pipe in my hand...

                by Mortifyd on Mon May 06, 2013 at 10:42:23 PM PDT

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                •  Oh my... (0+ / 0-)

                  Off in the weeds.

                  I don't mind your star trek dreams. But the way things are going we may not get that far, since some of the world's most brilliant scientists think we may have only another hundred years before there are only a few survivors left as a consequence of global warming. I don't know if that will occur, but it seems wise to focus on what is more certain to happen, rather than worry about meteorites killing us off, which is actually a known element -- we know what's out there and what is coming our way in terms of orbiting bodies.

                  We should focus on saving our species, and the species of hundreds of thousands of other life forms, before worrying about colonizing other planets. But here we are blithely ignoring that, and a host of other things, while spending money on space technology.

                  Even if we were doing both at once, that would be better. But to do one while virtually ignoring the other is... stupid and insane.

                  "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

                  by ZhenRen on Mon May 06, 2013 at 11:50:12 PM PDT

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                  •  so nice you don't mind... (0+ / 0-)

                    the fact that I give a shit about our species.

                    We mostly know what is coming our way.  We don't at this time have the capacity to do anything about it should a little gravity tweak put us in the path of something nasty that puts chimps in shoes with the dinosaurs.

                    I think we have to do both - and not all of anything will survive.  That's how life works.  Just because we live in a bubble and refuse to recognise our own potential mortality doesn't mean we should just ignore the drive some of us have to reach beyond this world.

                    We spend almost nothing on space technology.  Less than a nickle per dollar goes to NASA.  Enormous gains in knowledge have come out of that shoestring budget - things that benefit humans here and now on this planet - that's hardly a waste in my book.

                    But hey, if you want to pretend that is draining our budget and has no value because you choose not to see it - knock yourself out.  No one is going to stop you - certainly not me.

                    And we sail and we sail and we never see land, just the rum in the bottle and a pipe in my hand...

                    by Mortifyd on Tue May 07, 2013 at 12:15:13 AM PDT

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                    •  So far... (0+ / 0-)

                      that "drive" you speak of has been, in the long view of history, killing us due to the hubris of men playing god with the universe.

                      A little less machismo and drive and a little more nurturing and caring for the earth would be nice to see right about now, to balance out the destruction of the last century.

                      Not saying you're 100% wrong, but overall, my point is a valid one.

                      "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

                      by ZhenRen on Tue May 07, 2013 at 02:10:16 AM PDT

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