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View Diary: Open thread for night owls: 3-D printed guns 'a politically important project' (312 comments)

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  •  how will gun manufacturers get in on the act? (4+ / 0-)

    If people can make their own guns, the gun manufacturers will lose market share (eventually).  They won't like that.

    Defund Koch industries

    by machiado on Mon May 06, 2013 at 08:34:31 PM PDT

    •  Not a problem... (5+ / 0-)

      ...the gun manufacturers will sell performance.  Or to put it bluntly, the ability to put a large number of bullets into the air in a very short period of time, with maximum range and killing power.

      This 3-D gun doesn't represent much of a threat to the entrenched gun makers.

      Political Compass: -6.75, -3.08

      by TexasTom on Mon May 06, 2013 at 08:40:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Not within our lifetime. (5+ / 0-)

      3d printing is EXPENSIVE not cheap. For whatever level of quality mass production via factory is always going to be cheaper within our lifetime.

      Eventually we may have some paradigm shift in manufacturing but that will not happen within a reasonable time frame.

      Once 3d printing becomes competitive with any form of manufacturing that will be a COMPLETE change in our economy.

      You think outsourcing to China and Bangladesh is bad? Try having no need for humans doing any manufacturing ANYWHERE in the world.

      •  Somebody has to manufacture (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JeffW, Glen The Plumber, MaikeH, machiado

        the printers and plastic.  So there's that. /wishing that thought didn't occur to me.

        "Go well through life"-Me (As far as I know)

        by MTmofo on Mon May 06, 2013 at 08:49:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  You Might Worry if You Made Something (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Glen The Plumber, dinotrac

        for a living that can be done this way, that is complicated or rare enough that the cost of 3-d was relatively less important.

        I'm going to be losing a lot of sleep for a while.

        We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

        by Gooserock on Mon May 06, 2013 at 08:57:55 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  it's not as expensive as you may think--and it (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        machiado

        keeps getting cheaper all the time.

        Already you can buy basic-level 3d printers for less than $400--and if you're willing to assemble it yourself you can download plans for free and print out all the parts for just the cost of metal and plastic printing materials.

        Once 3d printing becomes competitive with any form of manufacturing that will be a COMPLETE change in our economy.
        Absolutely. It will be a game-changers just like the Computer Revolution. It's just a matter of time until 3d printers are as cheap and ubiquitous as inkjet printers are now. Each of us will own our own means of production.
      •  Eh. Someone has to fix the machines, move the (0+ / 0-)

        raw materials, move the finished products, install stuff in peoples homes, convince people to buy it, design it, ect.

        There will still be plenty of work to be done, and the fight will remain what it has always been.

        Wash. Judge Tells Cops To Return Man’s Marijuana Or Be Found In Contempt

        by JesseCW on Tue May 07, 2013 at 01:56:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You don't have to fix 'em if you can just print (0+ / 0-)

          their replacements.

          "Hey Pete, my printer broke.  Mind printing me up a new one?  I'll bring the supplies and the brewskis."

          "Sure.  Why not? It's not like I have to go to work or anything."

          LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

          by dinotrac on Tue May 07, 2013 at 02:09:01 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Depends on case (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        machiado

        For customization or low volumes, can be relatively cheap.

        Otherwise, I agree with your general observation except in mass-production applications where small amounts of materials or large areas in a single pass are concerned.

        Some mass-produced "large electronics" are already manufactured with printable processes integrated with conventional processes.

        For example, some large panel displays now use lighting circuitry printed on the display substrate replacing large circuit boards which would be thicker, more expensive and more complex to assemble. What you do is print a silver ink circuit pattern, a dielectric coating and then silver paste dots and mount the components, then solder using a low temperature sintering process. Total cycle time is shorter and less materials are used. The precision (one set-up, two or three workstations) enables building small structures on a large area and the capital investment is also lower.

        Also some very small structures are built quickly.

        But, folks, this does not mean you are going to build your own TV with a maker bot unless you can afford about $5Bn for your own large panel LCD plant.

        {Not a sigline. You are hallucinating.}

        by koNko on Tue May 07, 2013 at 04:46:54 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Never underestimate the power of exp. curves n/t (0+ / 0-)
    •  people are able to make their own ciggies (7+ / 0-)

      grow their own baccer, cure it, shred it and roll it into a ciggie (I have a roller my dad left me) but few do it.  The same with guns.  Not too hard to fabricate but the mass produced models are so much prettier..........

    •  By controlling the market for ammo (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Bush Bites, JeffW, Eric Nelson

      like they already do, reducing production while blaming the government thru their PR arms like Alex Jones.

      And right now they are the equivalent of plastic flintlocks as far as usefulness - one round at a time before having to change out the barrel or other components.

      In the city you can buy a Saturday Night Special for the price of materials for one of these, (forget the printer itself )- and the rounds and firing pin are still metal, NTM it's not very small - about the size of a flare gun.

      Conservatism is an obsession with the past ... with little regard for the future.

      by RUNDOWN on Mon May 06, 2013 at 09:39:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  to be fair, nothing prevents the barrel from (0+ / 0-)

        being printed out of metal.

        •  Except access to the metal-sintering machine. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          RUNDOWN

          Our intrepid, Camus-loving libertarian doesn't strike me as someone who has such access.

          Maybe in 30 years...

          Oh, and the idea of the plastic gun is to give it a small detection footprint. Metal parts kinda negate that advantage, and it would probably be cheaper to use conventional machine tools and parts from Brownell's.

          Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

          by JeffW on Mon May 06, 2013 at 10:27:34 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  just go here: (0+ / 0-)

            http://www.shapeways.com/...

            Delivery in less than two weeks.  (shrug)

            •  Nice, but $8 per cm³? (0+ / 0-)

              That would get expensive for a zip gun.

              And unless you have them send you the finished parts randomly, someone will figure it out. Kinda detracts from the DIY thing...

              Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

              by JeffW on Mon May 06, 2013 at 10:39:11 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  you don't need the whole gun to be metal (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                JesseCW, PavePusher

                Just the barrel. To them, it's nothing but a metal tube.  (shrug)

                The rest of the gun works just fine as plastic. It doesn't need to be metal.

                •  And getting Shapeways into the act... (0+ / 0-)

                  ...will leave a digital trail, even if you have them make the metal parts, and ecase them in plastic in your own printer. Again, probably not what our intrepid, camus-loving libertarian would want.

                  Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

                  by JeffW on Mon May 06, 2013 at 11:04:47 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  a digital trail to what--the gun that can't be (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    PavePusher

                    traced back to you?

                    THAT is the real advantage to it, not the low-detectability (who wants to rob people on an airplane anyway?).

                    You can download it, get your barrel, rob a gas station with it, and drop it in the trash. Even if the cops find it (how many trash barrels are there in the city?), they can't trace it to you anyway. Unless they get DNA or prints off it (and have yours on file), in which case the paper trail no longer matters.

                    •  They recover the gun... (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      RUNDOWN

                      ...take it apart, then consult with Shapeways. You're busted.

                      And why go to all that trouble for a throwaway gun? Maybe it'll be cheap in 30 years, but not now.

                      Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

                      by JeffW on Mon May 06, 2013 at 11:31:10 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  More to the point: You can engage in a political (0+ / 0-)

                      act of terror/freedom (depending).

                      Even more to the point: You create an awareness that you can engage in a political act of terro/freedom.

                      Or, of course, you can just keep it around for self-defense.
                      In that case, it probably doesn't matter how many shots it can fire, or fi somebody could trace it back to you: it's in your possession and isn't likely to ever be fired.

                      LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                      by dinotrac on Tue May 07, 2013 at 02:13:26 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

          •  The idea of a plastic gun here is that cheap (0+ / 0-)

            3D printers use plastic -- today.

            The small detection footprint is a side effect that may be very interesting to some, but is an asterisk for most.

            LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

            by dinotrac on Tue May 07, 2013 at 02:10:52 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  "reducing production"? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tom Seaview

        Citations, please?  Or merely CT-snark?

        Your hate-mail will be graded.

        by PavePusher on Mon May 06, 2013 at 10:48:37 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Economics 101 (0+ / 0-)

          Supply and Demand.

          Reduce supplies during increasing demand ...

          Make more $$$.

          But firearms manufacturers are "above" all that I guess - they just make millions for the cause of  - "Freedom".

          That last line would be considered snark.

          Conservatism is an obsession with the past ... with little regard for the future.

          by RUNDOWN on Tue May 07, 2013 at 09:03:57 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  So, can't address my question... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Tom Seaview

            or provide citations to support your CT.

            Got it.

            http://money.cnn.com/...

            http://thesouthern.com/...

            http://www.ammoland.com/...

            Have a great day.

            Your hate-mail will be graded.

            by PavePusher on Tue May 07, 2013 at 03:59:33 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You have no question to answer (0+ / 0-)

              I never said I agreed with the government ammo grab CT - it's propaganda.

              And your links quote the PR departments of ammo manufacturers, not exactly an "unbiased" source.

              You looking for disagreement, and don't even understand the original comment.

              Right back at ya!

              Conservatism is an obsession with the past ... with little regard for the future.

              by RUNDOWN on Tue May 07, 2013 at 05:35:16 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Perhaps I misunderstood you? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                gerrilea
                By controlling the market for ammo like they already do, reducing production while blaming the government...
                Seemed to be buying into the CT...

                If I translated poorly, mea culpa.

                Your hate-mail will be graded.

                by PavePusher on Tue May 07, 2013 at 06:25:16 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  The ammo purchases are propaganda? (0+ / 0-)

                2.4 billion rounds isn't an ammo grab by the government?

                Okay, please provide us with historic reference points say like how many bullets did DHS, SSA, IRS, et al purchase in the past 10 yrs? I'd take a yearly breakdown as a legitimate starting point...that's if you wish to prove your "propaganda" theory as being valid.

                Snopes has a little bit of the truth here:

                What I find absurd is that the SSA needs 174,000 rounds of hollow point bullets for 295 agents.  Or that NOAA needs 47,000 rounds for 61 agents. Or the US Forest Service needing 310,000 bullets for 737 "LEO" agents.

                What I haven't been able to find is historical purchases.  Are these purchase out of line from the previous years? Why does the Department of Education need armed agents again?  If someone defaults on their student loans, shouldn't that be handled by say the Police? Or even the FBI??? Or worse, a debt collector???

                Is it any wonder why we have a gun-ho society??? Really?? Everyone and their brother is a Federal "agent" of some sort, good grief!

                Hey but who knows, maybe they really shoot 2.4 billion rounds each year in training, if so, who they planning on shooting???

                Jeeze Louise!  There really has to be some common sense here, so far it isn't making much sense.

                -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                by gerrilea on Tue May 07, 2013 at 06:49:05 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Infowars sourced? (0+ / 0-)

                  How about any legitimate source.

                  Newsmax and WND do not count either.

                  Accepting "bids" is not a "grab".

                  Research the difficulties in finding ammo (and most other metals goods) - during WW2, not unprecedented.

                  Conservatism is an obsession with the past ... with little regard for the future.

                  by RUNDOWN on Wed May 08, 2013 at 06:49:31 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

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