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View Diary: Liberal Gun Toter Talking Points (53 comments)

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  •  If someone said, "This lathe can turn a block (6+ / 0-)

    of steel into a smooth clyindrical dowel" - nobody on earth would say, "No it can't - people can!"

    If someone said, "This car can do 140 mph - nobody on earth would say, "No it can't - people can!"

    "Guns don't kill people - people do" is not any form of "true," in regards to the discussion of guns in our society. It's an argument not meant to support a view - it's one meant only to obscure and muddle. It's the argument of either willfull liars or idiots with the IQs of doorknobs.

    •  " It's the argument of either willfull liars... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      exterris, Shamash, sturunner

      or idiots with the IQs of doorknobs."

      So are you winning many converts to your argument with that approach?

      If you read my diary you would see that I both agree with you and disagree. In parallel argument to my point I would say it is valid to argue that a lathe and a car only do what you ask when a person is driving them. So why waste time calling those who make this argument liars and idiots. Accept that their argument has some merit and go with it because it is easily turned back on them.

      Guns don't kill people by themselves. Cars don't go 140 mph by themselves and lathes don't turn metal by themselves. I can live with each of those statements. If you can't then you are too closed-minded to be of any help in the debate. However, if your goal is to prove that you can make people angry by insulting them, you are probably very successful.

      •  asdf (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Eric K, tgrshark13

        "In parallel argument to my point I would say it is valid to argue that a lathe and a car only do what you ask when a person is driving them."

        And NOBODY ever fucking says "lathes don't do that - people do!" That's the fucking point. Same with cars. It is not against sense in any way, shape, or form to say a machine has capability - by itself. It is the most simple and understood use of language imagineable.

        "This plane is capable of supersonic speeds."

        "No it isn't - people are!"

        Willfull liars or motherfucking idiot fucks. It's okay to call them that.

        However, if your goal is to prove that you can make people angry by insulting them, you are probably very successful.
        You underestimate the power of insult. And overestimate the honesty or inteligence of people who say "Guns don't kill people - people do!"
        •  I suppose... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sturunner, erush1345

          that if people were trying to outlaw lathes and cars people would be saying exactly that.

          I neither underestimate nor overestimate as you claim. My point is that your approach has us right where we've always been--losing this argument on gun control. This debate will be won on the backs of gun owners who do not agree with the NRA. Stop alienating them/us because they aren't the enemy.

          Let me just remind you of what I actually wrote. "Guns and bullets and the people who use them kill people." I am sorry if you can't live with that statement.

          •  You're being a nice guy, and I appreciate it. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            AdamR510

            But I just think you're wrong about the warm and fuzzy on this.

            And we're here on DKos. When I argue with my gun-fetishist freinds abotu things like this and they bring hsit like this out - I call them on their shit and I tell them it's shit. They're my friends. I can do that. And I've probably done more with straight talk than any warm and fuzzy could ever do. Remember the bottom line on this is not warm and fuzzy at all. It's grotesque and bloody and way too often infant-shaped. People need reminding on that.

            •  Again, my point... (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              AdamR510, sturunner

              was never to win over the Wayne LaPierre's of the world. Consider how close we are in America to bringing at least a bit of sanity to gun ownership. That will only be done by creating a coalition of gun lovers and gun haters who both recognize that the NRA is truly the enemy for bringing about reasonable gun laws. Those gun lovers who can help bring sanity won't join the fight if we continue to act like asses toward them. That is my appeal to you. When being an ass is demanded, be one. But there are times when an insult is counterproductive.

              •  Little is just being a dick . (0+ / 0-)

                Drop the name-calling MB 2/4/11 + Please try to use ratings properly! Kos 9/9/11 + Trusted Users have a responsibility to police the general tenor... Hunter 5/26/06

                by indycam on Tue May 07, 2013 at 07:19:15 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

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