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View Diary: The Siberian Arctic Was a Summer Resort Spot the Last Time CO2 Was Today's 400ppm (123 comments)

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  •  Sea level rise would go on for hundreds of years (23+ / 0-)

    even if we could zero out CO2 emissions. Twenty feet of SLR is, AFAIK, unavoidable. We are fighting to stop even worse catastrophes.

    All of our favorite beaches will be underwater.

    look for my eSci diary series Thursday evening.

    by FishOutofWater on Fri May 10, 2013 at 12:05:30 PM PDT

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    •  Yup - we need to start backing our cities (16+ / 0-)

      off the coast - into the Appalachian foothills.  Sea walls can only do so much, especially with the increasing energy and size of the storms in the north Atlantic.  The Mississippi basin will become the Mississippi embayment again over the next couple of centuries.  The real issue - as it ever is - will be water and food.  We're going to get way too much water in the springtime and drought in mid- to late-summer.  We need to shift our agriculture not just to a more sustainable system, but to short-season crops that can be grown and harvested between the floods and the drought.  And we just plain will not have enough water for agriculture AND extraction of fossil fuels.  We also may just plain not have enough land for agriculture to feed hundreds of millions of people and cities to hold hundreds of millions of people - and that particular adjustment will not be pleasant.

      •  I would love... (2+ / 0-) hear you expand further on this comment.  Can you tell me more of your thoughts on specific agricultural approaches in response to climate change?  Or, better yet...a diary?

        Freedom isn't "on the march." Freedom dances.

        by WarrenS on Fri May 10, 2013 at 07:26:00 PM PDT

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        •  I'm not a "pro" although I am/was (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          a gardener - so a diary is probably reaching.  However, the first thing we have to get off of is the Nixonian version of farm subsidies - paying per acre to the landowner(s) for land dedicated to corn, soy, rice, wheat, and cotton which after a couple of agri real estate "bubbles" means billions of tax dollars are going to corporate CEOs and diddly squat is going to actual farmers (and nothing at all to farmers who produce fruits and vegetables).  That will solve a myriad of environmental AND economic ills right there.  We'd best start thinking of diverting the flood waters over the farm fields prior to planting - that has historically been the source of new and fertile top soil.  Modern American methods just don't work with the natural system and we need to get over that.  As to what crops to grow - most things have shorter and longer season varieties, we're going to have to move to the shorter season.  We're also going to have to move to a different style of farming - adapting techniques like "Square Foot Gardening" for commercial production, using drip irrigation in many/most places and so forth.  Most of these techniques are not currently used because they require too much human interaction and can't be done by mongo-huge machines.    Probably we'll end up with a hybrid - more people and small machines, but still machines, not the extremist idea of back to pre-industrial serfdom (not that we don't still have a certain amount of that - ask any migrant farm worker).   It's one more situation of "we can do it, will we?"

      •  any agriculture is a gamble (1+ / 0-)
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        true any time, but even more so in the wild weather of the near future. IF those floods and droughts are regular, and no other events (like massive wind) destroy crops, then there may be some reliability to short season growing.  
        My attempts at growing food have already been hampered by unpredictability in our growing season and rainfall. In just the last few years I have seen March heat that started all the bulbs and perennials only to die in May freezes, a tropical storm that dumped a foot of rain in 16 hours (and wrecked my state), several destructive hail events, and the introduction of many pests that were not indigenous to this area before.

        The problem is enormously complex, even on a micro scale.
        all of adaptation strategies will need to be nimble, and have multiple Plan B options available.

        Last full month in which the average daily temperature did not exceed twentieth-century norms: 2/1985 - Harper's Index, 2/2013

        by kamarvt on Sat May 11, 2013 at 04:37:52 AM PDT

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        •  Food's gonna get greenhousey, and we're going to (2+ / 0-)
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          kamarvt, FishOutofWater

          have to do the same thing peasants all over Europe learned to do, although for different reasons.

          They shifted because of the damage armies marching across a field can do.

          Root crops, like beets and turnips and carrots and potatoes.  They're a hell of a lot more capable of surviving odd freezes and unseasonal weather than cereal grains are.  

          Monoculture is also just flat out done.  

          Wash. Judge Tells Cops To Return Man’s Marijuana Or Be Found In Contempt

          by JesseCW on Sat May 11, 2013 at 05:19:00 AM PDT

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      •  The new Albany Seaway? (0+ / 0-)

        Physics is bulls**t. Don't let them fool you. Fire IS magic.
        (Facts brought to you by the Party of the Future - the GOP)

        by Pescadero Bill on Sat May 11, 2013 at 11:04:15 AM PDT

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    •  Even the pollution (1+ / 0-)
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      to come of all the stuff we have at ground level getting drawn into the ocean, like happens with the Japanese tsunami... Hard to face it.

      Government and laws are the agreement we all make to secure everyone's freedom.

      by Simplify on Fri May 10, 2013 at 11:49:14 PM PDT

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