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View Diary: Journeys with Doctor Who (2): The Second Doctor (1966-1969) (44 comments)

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  •  The Mind Robber (2+ / 0-)
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    Troubadour, Mannie

    Yeah, that one was surreal.  It had a few good bits in it.  I liked the bit where they met a stranger in 18th Century garb who spoke only in quotations from Gulliver's Travels because he was Gulliver.  Of course, it also psyched me out because Gulliver kept referring to "the Master" and I kept thinking "Wait... the Master wasn't introduced until Jon Pertwee, wasn't he...?"

    The part where Jamie loses his face (as I understand it, because the actor was unavailable for a couple days of the shooting) was nearly so audacious that it was almost clever.  But not quite.  So instead it was mind-bogglingly dumb.

    "All the World's a Stage and Everyone's a Critic." -- Mervyn Alquist

    by quarkstomper on Thu May 09, 2013 at 05:50:40 AM PDT

    •  I despise episodes like that. Viscerally. (3+ / 0-)
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      N in Seattle, Mannie, quarkstomper

      There's the one in Star Trek TNG where we go into Data's dreams and he's carving up Deana Troi.  There's the one in Farscape where they're caught in some kind of fantasy videogame.  Etc. etc.  I'm not a fan of "sci-fantasy" or "psy-fi" mind-games.  The whole premise of "What if things are not as they seem?" is trivial when taken to such extremes.  If they can imagine anything and make it real, imagine a legitimate episode!

      Today's trivia becomes tomorrow's sacrament.

      by Troubadour on Thu May 09, 2013 at 08:01:18 AM PDT

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      •  OTOH, "The Inner Light"... (4+ / 0-)
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        Troubadour, avsp, Mannie, Transactivist

        ...may have been the most heartfelt episode in the entirety of of ST:TNG. Brings a tear to my eye, and I am an extremely non-weepy sort.

        That they packed that flute (more like a recorder IMHO, but that's not what they called it) for the beneficiary of their civilization's soul-experience to keep was an inspired touch, and the final scene with Picard playing it while staring wistfully into deep space was perfect.

        Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. -- K.Marx A.Lincoln

        by N in Seattle on Thu May 09, 2013 at 10:17:58 AM PDT

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        •  I agree about the Inner Light. (2+ / 0-)
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          N in Seattle, Mannie

          That's not at all the kind of thing I'm criticizing, and in fact is my favorite episode out of all Star Trek series.  It also resonated with me because as a kid I had time-altered dreams where I'd feel like months or even years were passing in a single night, and I'd wake up disoriented.  

          What I'm criticizing are the kind of episodes that are all about just being totally arbitrary and fantastical.  That doesn't really have a place in science fiction.

          Today's trivia becomes tomorrow's sacrament.

          by Troubadour on Thu May 09, 2013 at 10:46:27 AM PDT

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          •  understood (2+ / 0-)
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            Troubadour, Mannie

            I agree that there's a big difference between TIL and that ridiculous living video game from the Delta Quadrant in ST:DS9 or other such dreck. "The Royale", anyone?

            But wasn't, say, the Moriarty set of episodes, or everything with Dixon Hill, in some sense similar to what you're describing? Weren't there several other Data-dreaming or Data-self-revealing episodes, most of which were quite thoughtful?

            I think the main distinction is between well-conceived and well-written episodes and stuff that got shot because they had to do something for that week. Or, to bring it back to Who, those several weeks.

            Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. -- K.Marx A.Lincoln

            by N in Seattle on Thu May 09, 2013 at 11:43:47 AM PDT

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      •  Shore Leave (1+ / 0-)
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        Troubadour

        I remember reading once a story about the Star Trek episode "Shore Leave".  I guess that the original script for the episode by Theodore Sturgeon stressed the science fictional aspects of the story and the explanation for the bizzare events in order to avoid the sense of "It Was All A Dream".  But when it was actually filmed, the director decided that it would make the filming easier and/or the story more interesting if they played up the fantasy elements.  Roddenberry (or perhaps Gene L. Coon; I forget which) was out of town or something, and when he came back and saw what they were shooting he had a cow and they had to do frantic re-writing on the fly in order to tie everything togeter.

        At least that's the story I remember reading.  I no longer remember where I got it and may have the details of it wrong.

        "All the World's a Stage and Everyone's a Critic." -- Mervyn Alquist

        by quarkstomper on Thu May 09, 2013 at 01:41:52 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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