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View Diary: Sanford wins: South Carolina voters reject family values, honesty, integrity and responsibility (281 comments)

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  •  poor frank (4+ / 0-)

    just keep ignoring the polling of the past six months. keep misrepresenting it. lying, i believe, is how mb described your spin. and yes- we won a blue seat in illinois, we lost a red seat in south carolina. and we're happily observing the collapse of approval ratings of those who voted against background checks. in the polls, frank. this year's polls. poor frank.

    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

    by Laurence Lewis on Tue May 07, 2013 at 11:30:23 PM PDT

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    •  You mean polls like (0+ / 0-)

      this?
      Or this?
      Or this? Nearly a quarter of Democrats are relieved or happy the bill was shot down.

      Or maybe you mean the poll showing that C-B was leading by 9 points 2 weeks ago?

      In any case, I see you think gun control is a big winner.
      Good.
      You can own the results. All yours.

      Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

      by FrankRose on Tue May 07, 2013 at 11:43:20 PM PDT

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      •  wow (3+ / 0-)

        The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

        by Laurence Lewis on Tue May 07, 2013 at 11:48:54 PM PDT

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        •  I just linked it. Didn't offer any commentary on (0+ / 0-)

          it.
          How, exactly, is that 'misrepresenting'? Do be specific.

          Don't sweat it, you will get full credit for 2014.
          You're off to a smashing start. What could you possibly be so worried about?
          I promise Laurence, 2014 is all yours.
          You wanted it.
          Now you get to own it.
          So own it.

          No more whining. No more excuses.  All that matters now is results.
          One result is in.
          Don't worry, dropping an election to an adulterous, thieving, embarrassment whom was arrested during the race, dropped by his own party & outspent 4-1 to a well funded, well known & intelligent candidate that had a 9 point lead 2 weeks ago isn't that big of a deal.
          It should get easier from here, amirite?

          Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

          by FrankRose on Wed May 08, 2013 at 12:21:45 AM PDT

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          •  yes (3+ / 0-)

            2014 will be ours. and you will be left behind.

            your concerns are noted, and given their due. which is nothing. we didn't win a deep red seat in a deep red state, just as we didn't win vitter's senate seat after his hypocrisy with prostitutes. yes, it will get easier. we will win blue and purple seats. and the republicans, and those who share their values, will be left behind, as the evolutionary dead ends they are.

            The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

            by Laurence Lewis on Wed May 08, 2013 at 12:52:58 AM PDT

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            •  You are off to a smashing start. (0+ / 0-)

              I plan on leaving the dead Enders behind ....just like we did in the aftermath of 1994.

              Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

              by FrankRose on Wed May 08, 2013 at 05:00:53 AM PDT

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              •  poor frank (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                orlbucfan, Glen The Plumber

                we didn't win a deep red seat. there is zero evidence your obsession had anything to do with it. poor frank.

                The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                by Laurence Lewis on Wed May 08, 2013 at 08:01:07 AM PDT

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                •  No. There is no evidence that gun control wins. (0+ / 0-)

                  Primarily because it has always been a goddamn disaster.
                  Excuses are for losers.
                  Results are for winners.

                  "your obsession"
                  So says someone that supports repealing a Constitutional Amendment.
                  'Self-awareness'-- Apparently, not your style.

                  As clever as saying "poor frank" is (almost as clever as "i know this is hard") you seem to be forgetting that your plans for taking the liberties of innocent Americans because of your fear & distrust, was completely, utterly & humiliatingly defeated.
                  Your side lost; resoundingly. And it is the party that will suffer for it.

                  Now all that is left is the political consequences.
                  I look forward to hearing your excuses in 2014.

                  Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                  by FrankRose on Wed May 08, 2013 at 08:28:50 AM PDT

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                  •  poor frank (0+ / 0-)

                    the only polls since the gun laws failed show a collapse in the approval ratings of the senators that opposed them. poor frank. your spin fools no one. your desperation is showing.

                    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                    by Laurence Lewis on Wed May 08, 2013 at 08:35:33 AM PDT

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                    •  "desperation is showing" (0+ / 0-)

                      How so?
                      Gun Controllers can't pass shit or win shit.

                      Like I said, the results of 2014 are all yours.

                      Until then, let me know how that AWB works out.

                      Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                      by FrankRose on Wed May 08, 2013 at 09:14:16 AM PDT

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      •  How many Newtowns do you think it will take... (6+ / 0-)

        ...before 80% to 90% of the people who want universal background checks are going to say to the minority of gun-owners who oppose such checks that their concerns about confiscation (given the existing 79-year-old gun registry for machine-guns) are misplaced and their efforts to squelch a broadening of such checks is not going to hold our nation hostage to a fanatical interpretation of the 2nd Amendment?

        Because that is what's driving the opposition. I say this as an owner of multiple firearms who believes in personal self-defense if need be. Some Democratic politicians are no doubt made vulnerable by a Democratic drive for stricter regulations. But we're seeing that some Republicans are made vulnerable as well by resisting the adding of some new regulations, especially background checks. If you think the fanatical view of the 2nd Amendment can win out in the long run, I think you're not very clearly seeing the future.

        And you'll continue to see it unclearly as long as you keep citing certain polls (or parts of polls) and leaving out contradictory polls. You can pretend to yourself that they are the only data were presenting, but you can't pretend to those of us who know better.

        Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

        by Meteor Blades on Wed May 08, 2013 at 12:13:55 AM PDT

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        •  How many terrorist attacks do you think it will (0+ / 0-)

          take before you support warrantless wiretaps?

          I'd be fine with B/C's...in fact, I couldn't possibly have given less of a shit about the bill that failed--pass it, don't pass it--less of a fuck I couldn't give....but not when it is presented along with a gun ban.

          "Fears of confiscation are misplaced"
          GB, Australia, California, New York, DiFi's own words "If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them . . . Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in, I would have done it.", Obama's written support of banning even the possession of handguns.
               They aren't misplaced. Confiscation is the stated, attempted and--in the case of GB & Australia--accomplished goal.

          "And you'll continue to see it unclearly as long as you keep citing certain polls (or parts of polls) and leaving out contradictory polls."
          I assume you are going to say the same to LL, as he is leaving out 'contradictory polls'. I'd hate for standards to be based solely on POV.

          I agree with Kos. 2014 is all about gun control.
          Thus, gun controllers can own it.
          We'll see how it plays out.
          Then we will be able to more accurately ascertain whom is/isn't seeing this clearly.

          Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

          by FrankRose on Wed May 08, 2013 at 12:49:43 AM PDT

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          •  As you very well know, the California case... (0+ / 0-)

            ...is a fluke related to a very specific firearm. It was a dumb move by the state A.G., to be sure. But NO OTHER assault weapons have been confiscated in the state in the past 24 years and the latest attempt by a legislator to put through a confiscatory bill didn't even make it out of committee in a legislature with a super-majority of Democrats.

            Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

            by Meteor Blades on Wed May 08, 2013 at 08:28:14 AM PDT

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            •  "Fluke" Oh sure, somebody tripped and fell into (0+ / 0-)

              a confiscation law.

              That sounds reasonable. Nothing to see there.

              Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

              by FrankRose on Wed May 08, 2013 at 08:33:29 AM PDT

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              •  The California law is NOT a confiscation law... (0+ / 0-)

                ...99%+ of the weapons it requires to be registered are STILL in private hands. You KNOW this. You know why the specific SKS firearms were taken. As I said, they shouldn't have been. But presenting the California law as confiscatory overall is bullshit. And comparing U.S. laws with Britain's and Australia's, where there have been strong gun-control laws for more than 100 years and more than 60 years respectively, is bogus.

                Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

                by Meteor Blades on Wed May 08, 2013 at 08:39:13 AM PDT

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                •  Australia & GB are routinely held up as models (0+ / 0-)

                  to follow for gun control by supporters of registration.

                  Obama and DiFi have openly stated that they would support confiscation.

                  California has already passed a law using registration to facilitate confiscation.

                  By the standard you seem to be presenting, one cannot suspect that registration can lead to confiscation until a successful confiscation has already occurred. That is a ludicrous metric.

                  Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

                  by FrankRose on Wed May 08, 2013 at 08:58:32 AM PDT

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