Skip to main content

View Diary: The death of journalism and why it matters--with poll! (150 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  Alas, this fetish we have about "telling both (18+ / 0-)

    sides of a story" is harmful in so many ways: not the least of which is that a) it assumes that all questions are only two dimensional, and b) is assumes that both "sides" of the arguments rely on facts and method, not just opinion and ideology and what we WISH were true.

    Thus, you'll continue to have to put misinformation on your shelves. You're being asked to legitimize propaganda, and I don't think it's right but I also don't know what to do about it, either.

    I resent that. I demand snark, and overly so -- Markos Moulitsas.

    by commonmass on Wed May 08, 2013 at 08:25:12 AM PDT

    •  I loved the quote--I can't find it (6+ / 0-)

      where someone compared the two sides to (I think) presenting food, where one side was a steak and the other was a plate of broken glass. I'm mangling it terribly, I know . . .

      "Lone catch of the moon, the roots of the sigh of an idea there will be the outcome may be why?"--from a spam diary entitled "The Vast World."

      by bryduck on Wed May 08, 2013 at 08:33:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  that is the epitome of lazy news production (7+ / 0-)

      producers pretend that they cover real news, with real issues, and flush out the truth by presenting "Both Sides" when in fact, it is masturbation at best.

      Sometimes it seems that this lame excuse for reporting is interrupted only when the media engages in mass orges, typically involving a besotted blonde bimbette who skipped her wedding and is now missing in some Carib isle, or when three kidnapped girls are found a decade later. All the networks then rush to concoct a "new, fresh view" and continue to beat the story like some freshly expired equine.

      What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority.

      by agnostic on Wed May 08, 2013 at 08:36:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  One of the key points I taught to college... (20+ / 0-)

      ...journalism students and instilled in rookie (and other reporters) under my supervision is that almost every story has MORE THAN TWO SIDES.

      Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

      by Meteor Blades on Wed May 08, 2013 at 01:35:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I am honored by your presence! (8+ / 0-)

        I think even thinking about a story's "sides" creates a false sense of closure about how one approaches historical/journalistic evidence, but that's just me . . .

        "Lone catch of the moon, the roots of the sigh of an idea there will be the outcome may be why?"--from a spam diary entitled "The Vast World."

        by bryduck on Wed May 08, 2013 at 02:01:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well, a couple of things besides ... (8+ / 0-)

          ...the philosophical approach drives that "sides" theme: deadlines and space.

          Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

          by Meteor Blades on Wed May 08, 2013 at 03:36:45 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Fair enough. I would also think (5+ / 0-)

            a drive for simplicity--a stereotyped editor's prodding "Punch that up, MB!"--perhaps?

            "Lone catch of the moon, the roots of the sigh of an idea there will be the outcome may be why?"--from a spam diary entitled "The Vast World."

            by bryduck on Wed May 08, 2013 at 03:53:37 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Deadlines no problem. Space big problem. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            commonmass, Words In Action

            Whether it's column inches or seconds.

            Thump! Bang. Whack-boing. It's dub!

            by dadadata on Wed May 08, 2013 at 04:47:01 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  I don't know how accurate this is today, but (4+ / 0-)

            when I knew some reporters face-to-face in another town long ago, they told me it basically went like this:

            Report on the stories you are assigned to. Try to provide the correct point of view. Find and include a contrasting point of view so the editor would see it as "balanced."

            Just one quote from one source would do. But supposedly, they couldn't just submit an article on practically anything without finding "the opposing viewpoint."

            As you said, with deadlines in mind, that makes for rushed reporting at times (like almost always).

            "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

            by YucatanMan on Wed May 08, 2013 at 09:22:57 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Historical "evidence" can often be expert opinion (0+ / 0-)

          which some centuries later is not quite at the same level it was in the original examination. Let me give a couple of examples.

          Herodotus who lived a couple of centuries before Eratosthenes in Book II chapter 6 of his histories gives the schoenus as a measure of Egypt equivalent to sixty furlongs (stadions of 185 m). In Greek antiquity there were reckoned eight stadions to a mia chilios (thousand orquia) and 75 mia chilios (600 stadions of 185 m or 111km) to a degree so that the circumference of the Earth in Egypt where Eratosthenes measured it would have been 39,960,000 m. ~ 40,000 km at the equator.

          6. Then secondly, as to Egypt itself, the extent of it along the sea is sixty schoines, according to our definition of Egypt as extending from the Gulf of Plinthine to the Serbonian lake, along which stretches Mount Casion; from this lake then the sixty schoines are reckoned: for those of men who are poor in land have their country measured by fathoms, those who are less poor by furlongs, those who have much land by parasangs, and those who have land in very great abundance by schoines: now the parasang is equal to thirty furlongs, and each schoine, which is an Egyptian measure, is equal to sixty furlongs. So there would be an extent of three thousand six hundred furlongs for the coast-land of Egypt.
          For the second example the Mereneptah stele was mistranslated by Flinders Petrie in1896 as having a final passage reading Israel, and discussing Yenoam and Ashkelon when actually its discussing a Libyan incursion across Egypts borders.
          The stele was discovered in 1896 by Flinders Petrie in the ancient Egyptian capital of Thebes. Petrie called upon Wilhelm Spiegelberg, a German philologist in his archaeological team, to translate the inscription. Spiegelberg was puzzled by one symbol towards the end, that of a people or tribe whom Merneptah (also written Merenptah) had victoriously smitten--"I.si.ri.ar?" Petrie quickly suggested that it read: "Israel!" Spiegelberg agreed that this translation must be correct. "Won't the reverends be pleased?" remarked Petrie.
          This has been often mentioned as the earliest evidence for the State of Israel but is actually nothing of the sort.

          A later translation by Breasted is still wrong

             Tjehenu is vanquished,
              Khatti at peace,
              Canaan is captive with all woe.
              Ashkelon is conquered,
              Gezer seized,
              Yanoam made nonexistent;
              Israel is wasted, bare of seed,
              Khor is become a widow for Egypt

          The first six of seven parapgraphs are about Libyans invading the Delta and then supposedly we jump to discussing the Nine Bows, 38 lines of this translation deal with Merneptah's campaign against the Libyans and their allies but eight lines near the end are all that anyone ever looks at

          Here are what the eight lines actually read.
          After a long discourse on his campgn against
          Merey and the Libyans the stele doesn't begin
          with the noun Ashkelon, it begins

          ini u (fetch) isk(gifts tributes)[ist](property belongings)
          k3 pdty (bowmen) thmi (foreign)

          bring fetch [the] tribute gifts property belongings
          [of the] foreign bowmen [to the]

          fetch bring gifts provide tribute to the bowmen
          whose abode is the walled village or military camp

          hu (military encampment or walled village)
          mt det.dm G42 fatted duck (provisions)
          dmr (abode) tmhi y (foreigners)
          military camp, [get them] provisions and quarters

          fetch the belongings of the foreign bowment to the
          hu (military encampment or walled village) mt det.dm
          G42 fatted duck (provisions) dmr (abode) tmhi y (foreigners)
          military camp, [get them] provisions and quarters

          fetch bring gifts provide tribute to the bowmen
          whose abode is the walled village or military camp

          I'd read it as he's bringing in some tribute
          to the foreign bowmen, possibly ha ibrw
          the mounted bowmen of Canaan identified
          on the inscription of Ramesses II, carved to
          celebrate the battle of Kadesh

          fetch bring gifts provide tribute to the bowmen
          who abode in the walled village or military camp

          Its outside the borrowed formula used on line 26
          and there's no way it references Askelon, Gezer
          or Yenoam let alone Israel and even the reading
          of wasted, bare of seed and widow for Egypt
          seems poetic license at best.

          To begin with the ending translated at line 27 as

          Ashkelon is conquered, Gezer seized,
          Yanoam made nonexistent;
          Israel is wasted, bare of seed,
          Khor is become a widow for Egypt.
          All who roamed have been subdued.

          goes against the idea that Egyptian is VSO
          so we might hold it suspect that the translation
          is wrong from that aspect before even looking
          at anything else such as the initial y in Israel
          which Wilhelm Spiegelberg read as an i

          "I.si.ri.ar" = Israel

          read in context it gets worse
          Ashkelon is conquered, Gezer seized,
          turns out to read

          V=Fetch bring
          S
          gifts provide tribute to
          IO= the bowmen
          DO who abide in that
          P= walled village or military camp

          Yanoam made nonexistent;
          is derived from a determinative

          V=seen as
          S= a place for bulls

          Israel is wasted, bare of seed, comes in here

          O=her mouth ruined and weak
          P= Khor

          V=is become
          S=a widow for
          O=Egypt.

          to put it in English
          SVIODOPT

          S = the bowmen
          V= thank for
          O= their service
          P = of the garrison

          S= a place for bulls
          V= is become
          O=a widow for
          P= Egypt.

          S= her mouth
          V= is
          O= a ruin
          Place = Khor

          Line 28 is the final titulary formula

          All who roamed have been subdued.
          By the King of Upper and Lower Egypt, Banere-meramun,
          Son of Re, Merneptah, Content with Maat,
          Given life like Re every day.

          Breasted's Line 26 starts here

          The princes are prostrate saying: "Shalom!"
          Not one of the Nine Bows lifts his head:
          Tjehenu is vanquished, Khatti at peace,
          Canaan is captive with all woe.

          Breasted's Line 27 starts here

          Ashkelon is conquered, Gezer seized,
          Yanoam made nonexistent;
          Israel is wasted, bare of seed,
          Khor is become a widow for Egypt.

          Breasteds transliteration reads
          "inw iskrny"
          Ashkelon is conquered,

          but there he has mistaken a T10 pd bow for an r
          to get rny instead of pdty (bowmen)

          Breasted goes on
          "mhw m kdr"
          Gezer seized

          where the stele reads n mr hst w (Nubians) m tmhi (foreigners)
          Breasted omits the determinative and there is no kdr or ynw'

          ynw'
          Yenoam

          Breasted has ir w m tm wn
          to be "made nonexistent"

          that passage reads
          ir w (seen as) mtmnwnny (a place for bulls)

          fetch bring gifts provide tribute to the bowmen
          who abide in that walled village or military camp
          seen as a place for bulls

          The real issue is whether the y properly goes
          at the end or the beginning of a word.

          Breasted has
          ysr i3r fk.ti
          Israel is wasted, bare of seed,

          the stela has s:y:r iA r:Z1 T14 A1*B1:plural f:n:t:wr
          sy(her) r (mouth voice name) iA (ruin) r (foreign people) weak
          her mouth ruined and weak

          Breasted has
          bn prt f h3rw

          the stela has
          bn pr r t f plural h3rw

          Breasted has
          hpr.w m h3 rt n
          Khor is become a widow for Egypt.

          the stela has
          hp r w Mn:sw w r s3(red crown of lower Egypt)

          Gardiner has for widow M12 h3 Ar:t Det D3B1

          The stele actually reads middle of line 27 mtwny
          a place for the combat of bulls)
          s:y(her):r (mouth, voice, name) iA (ruin) r:Z1

          I don't think that is intended to read Israel

          Live Free or Die --- Investigate, Incarcerate

          by rktect on Thu May 09, 2013 at 02:47:26 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  create a new dewey decimal number for (10+ / 0-)

      "propaganda."

      Not that anyone knows the Dewey Decimal system anymore.

      _"Love is the rosebud of an hour; Friendship the everlasting flower."_ Brook Boothby

      by Keith930 on Wed May 08, 2013 at 07:05:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site