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View Diary: Another Obama nominee obstructed, another threat from Harry Reid (166 comments)

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  •  The Republicans (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ferg, Aunt Martha, Eric Nelson

    in the Senate are entirely predictable.  You know it and I know it and the Dem leadership knows it.

    "Justice is a commodity"

    by joanneleon on Thu May 09, 2013 at 08:58:56 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  More to the point: the Democrats too are (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      entirely predictable, and the Dem leadership knows this too.  

      Ned, the Democrats don't have to "plot" anything.  When a piece of somewhat-progressive-seeming legislation comes up, and the Dem leaders don't want it to pass because (secretly or openly) they agree with the Repubs, and they hold a vote which comes to more than 50 in favor but fewer than 60, they can throw up their hands and say, "See?  It's the filibuster.  Nothing we can do.  Our hands are tied."  The leadership can even cast the expected Yea votes, and thus (they think) preserve the illusion of their support of the proposed measure, all the while gloating over its defeat.

      If simple majorities carried the day (as they're supposed to), the Dem leadership would have to make their support for Republican positions open and explicit.  They don't want to do that, because those positions are usually unpopular.  Thus they rely on the filibuster, which allows them to preserve their unpopular positions (and allows those positions to win) without their actually having to avow them.  

      No conspiracy is involved.  None is necessary.  

      •  This is where your argument falls apart, if (0+ / 0-)

        Democrats were using Republicans' proclivity to block everything Democrats put forward as their tool for not passing "Progressive" legislation, they would have to be using Republicans to block non-Progressive legislation as well, right? Because Republicans have blocked nearly every single piece of legislation that has reared its Democratic legislation head since Barack Obama became President.

        To follow the argument being utilized here, Democrats ran for office all these years with the intention of not helping their constituents, but simply, in a cynical strategy, to make sure nothing gets done by hiding behind Republicans....

        I mean…this goes beyond shaking one's head....

        •  Senate Dems may have run with the intention (0+ / 0-)

          of helping their constituents, but naturally they have their own ideas of what that looks like.  I think most of them think that this usually means hewing to some center-right or even more conservative position.  In other words, I think most of them think, or anyway have persuaded themselves, that center-right positions are what their constituents want.  I believe they also think that they have to mouth certain Democratic-party shibboleths in order to get elected as Democrats; that they often don't seriously believe in these things; that they think that "everyone knows" about this hypocrisy and expects it now; and that they think that excuses it.  

          I don't think they are actively seeking to advance the Republican strategy of obstructing absolutely everything.  I think some of them are actually too dumb to understand that that's the Republicans' game.  I think they go on a case-by-case basis, and let the Repubs' use of the filibuster destroy legislation they didn't really want themselves.  

          •  rlochow, I would love to know what specific (0+ / 0-)

            legislation you feel the Democrats wanted the Republicans to block.

            •  Filibuster reform, the subject of this diary, (0+ / 0-)

              would be a perfect example.  

              •  Well filibuster reform is not exactly Progressive (0+ / 0-)

                legislation, it is a procedure. And yes, without it we do face obstructionism, but I thought the accusation was that Democrats were using Republican blocking practices to block specific Progressive legislation.

                I just wanted to know which specific legislation the Democrats were for Republicans blocking, unless they wanted them to block everything.

            •  they just don't care (1+ / 0-)
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              not sure there was specific legislation that they wanted Republicans to block, but I am sure that they don't care enough about the things they supposedly believe in enough to, you know, actually stop the obstruction.  Which they could easily do, but they don't.
              So why should I believe that a majority of Senate Dems actually want to accomplish anything to the left of the tea party?  They haven't done anything but post whiney tweets.

    •  Repubs have been predictable for decades, and? (0+ / 0-)
    •  HR my comment because? Let me say this, if you are (0+ / 0-)

      hide rating my comment because your feelings or ego is hurt that I called your statement loopy. That is one of the most ridiculous reasons for HR a comment I have ever come across.

      In fact, I'll say it again, your statement is loopy, and I welcome you to HR that again.

      Your statement regarding the Democratic Party using Republican obstructionism to block Democratic bills is based on absolutely nothing but your own decision on making an outlandish comment....

      You can try for a second HR....

      •  You're throwing insults (0+ / 0-)

        too other people too, not just me, and calling people crazy or loopy when you're not joking around or making an abstract "that's crazy" kind of statement is even more than an insult and often gets HR'd here.  If it makes you feel better though, go for it.  I've got no more time for you.

        "Justice is a commodity"

        by joanneleon on Thu May 09, 2013 at 10:33:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It is amazing that I've heard you and many of (0+ / 0-)

          your cohorts criticize the President or Democrats with some of the most outrageous and stunning description of the President and the Democratic Party and the President's supporters, for that matter, and you are offended because I claimed that your commentary is loopy?

          Perhaps if you don't want people to say your commentary is loopy you shouldn't say Democrats are using Republican obstructionism, such as blocking jobs, blocking programs for the poor, attempting to block the healthcare bill and many more, as a reason to not get anything done.

          I've got no more time for you as well.

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