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View Diary: Guatemala's Efraín Ríos Montt found guilty of genocide. Sentenced to 80 years in prison (174 comments)

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  •  Actually, just about every US SoS. (7+ / 0-)

    The differences are of degree, not kind.

    Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

    by corvo on Fri May 10, 2013 at 05:15:53 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Including our next president. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mookins, corvo, Wreck Smurfy

      A slower bleed-out is not a sustainable value.

      by MrJayTee on Fri May 10, 2013 at 05:22:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm not voting for her. (7+ / 0-)

        For the same reason I didn't vote for her last time.

        Hopefully someone else(dare I hope for an actual Democrat) will run.

        You may think that. I couldn't possibly comment.-- Francis Urqhart

        by Johnny Q on Fri May 10, 2013 at 05:33:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  We can all hope. (10+ / 0-)

          But no one will be allowed near the levers of power unless they are of, by, and for the Money Party.

          I've reached my limit.  I'm no longer voting for anyone representing the Money Party.

          A slower bleed-out is not a sustainable value.

          by MrJayTee on Fri May 10, 2013 at 05:41:11 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Ya, you definitely have that right! (7+ / 0-)

            Sometimes I think the greatest service Obama has performed for 'we the democratic people' has been to expose so completely just how dysfunctional (and dare I say, 'undemocratic') the whole system has become.

            Bradley Manning and Julian Assange are being persecuted for telling the truth. Paul Craig Roberts

            by dharmasyd on Fri May 10, 2013 at 06:32:43 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Had the gap between his PR and reality not (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              SadieSue, dharmasyd, MikePhoenix, qofdisks

              Been so glaring, and had it not been exposed at a time of great crisis, we'd be sailing on as if in the 90's.  

              Much more than the failure of one person, it's a failure of the Democratic party and Democratic loyalists not to hold the party to account for its willed sell-out to Wall Street.

              Politicians understand nothing but money and votes.  I will not use mine to help them consolidate corporate control.

              A slower bleed-out is not a sustainable value.

              by MrJayTee on Fri May 10, 2013 at 07:40:13 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Are there any... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          corvo, Lujane

          ..."actual Democrat"s  left?  Left?  Did I say left?  should I ask "Are there any actual Progressive Democrats remaining?"

          Bradley Manning and Julian Assange are being persecuted for telling the truth. Paul Craig Roberts

          by dharmasyd on Fri May 10, 2013 at 06:28:08 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Hillary helped the people of (8+ / 0-)

          Guatemala as First Lady.

          Sister Dianna Ortiz, a Catholic nun from New Mexico, had set up a vigil across from the White House.  She was protesting the refusal of the U.S. government to investigate her capture, torture and rape while serving in Guatemala during the Bush I adminsration.  The torture chamber was under the command of an anglo who spoke with an American accent.  When she escaped, the U.S. ambassador to Guatemala was publicly skeptical of her account.  That ambassador was Cheney's good friend from Wyoming.

          In 1996, Hillary took Sister Dianna into the White House to be photographed with her.  Hillary validateed here when everyone else doubted her.  Hillary promised to help.

          Later in 1996, the State Department released thousands of previously classifed documents evidencing U.S. complicity in all manner of horrible things in Guatemala.  At the end of 1996, the Guatemalan government, stung I believe by the release of the documents, came to the negotiating table and signed the Peace Accords with the rebels.  The deal inlcuded an amnesty for atrocities, something the prosecution got around in the Rios Montt conviction, and a Truth Commission.

          Hillary stood up for human rights in Guatemala when few would, and she I believe was instrumental in getting the documents released and thus assited the Peace Accords.

          Hillary is excellent on issues of human rights.  

           

          •  Well, a little, maybe. (4+ / 0-)

            Per the Philadelphia Inquirer:

            In 1995, President Clinton ordered an investigation into her case and the abuse of other U.S. citizens in Guatemala. In 1996, Hillary Clinton took an interest in the case and urged officials to release her files.

            Sister Dianna received thousands of pages of declassified documents from the State Department - all essentially useless to her, she said, since they did not reveal the identity of Alejandro or her other torturers. To this day, their identities remain unknown.

            [Bolding is mine.]

            HRC's meeting with Sister Dianna certainly didn't hurt, but it didn't help much, either.  It's also hard to believe there weren't other much more compelling reasons the Guatemalan right came to the table than a release of redacted documents.

            Any further illumination would be welcome, however, including anything showing Hillary Clinton's inclination to prosecute torture or her opposition to human rights violations like phony wars or drone strikes that kill civilians.

            A slower bleed-out is not a sustainable value.

            by MrJayTee on Fri May 10, 2013 at 08:09:38 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  The release of Sr. Dianna's (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              6412093, KenBee

              files were not personally helpful to her, but the release of the others documents was invaluable.   The documents included confirmation of the U.S.'s role in the 1954 coup that deposed Arbenz.  And of U.S. knowlege that we were helping a military that was torturing its own people.

              Bill apologized to the people of Guatemala.

              So, Hillary appears to have helped in opening the vault of documents......

              The Guatemalan government had little need to come to the table in 1996.

              One should give her credit where it is due, and she had a clear role in helping....And took political risk in helping Sr. Dianna when she was potentially politically radioactive.  

              •  Everyone knew about the '54 coup already. (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                wonmug, wu ming

                Like, in 1954.

                And knowledge of the US role in Central American dictatorships was widespread by the 80's.  

                How did the release of redacted documents confirming many things already known drive the Guatemalan right to the negotiating table?  And if releasing these documents did make a difference, how could Hillary Clinton, not even a government official at the time, make the US government do something it was otherwise disinclined to do?

                Did Clinton oppose the Iraq war, despite access to facts sufficient to prove it based on false pretenses, a war that killed 100,000 plus innocent people? That strikes me as a big human rights issue.  

                I'm more than happy to hear factual evidence of something positive accomplished by HRC, but your posts are beginning to sound like true believer press releases.

                A slower bleed-out is not a sustainable value.

                by MrJayTee on Fri May 10, 2013 at 08:49:06 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  It was suspected but not proven (6+ / 0-)

                  And the new cables showed that we knew the military was likely to commit atrocities but still supported them anyway.

                  You assume that all this was known and accepted.  Not so.  I was living in Guatemala during the civil war and there were all kinds of dodges....the rebels were responsible for the atrocities, etc.

                  True, Hillary had no ability to tell State to do anything, but she did raise the issue and after she did the vaults opened.  Bill did have that power.  And Bill's apology was big news.....It seems to me a lot of these series of events was triggered by Hillary's taking an interest in Sister Dianna.....She did much to elevate and affirm her.....A lot of good, unprecendedted things happened to Guatemala after that.  The Peace Accords set the stage for the Girardi Report and the UN Truth Commission, which established that the Guatemalan government for over 90% of the atrocities....That was huge news.....

                  Before 1996, sure, a few called it right in Guatemala, but they were largely ingored.  Like Chomsky and Nairn....Hillary and Bill got the word out to a larger audience.

                  My focus here is on Guatemala.  On that score she deserves praise.  

                •  And aside from Bill and Hillary (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  KenBee

                  few elected Democrats, if any, and no Repubulicans supported the people of Guatemala against their military dictatorship.

                  It was good to have them take the lead.

            •  The article you link (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              6412093, KenBee, marina

              to is a review of Sr. Dianna's book.  It is very good book.  And that book features her photo in the White House with Hillary.

              I wrote a Diary on this some time ago.

              •  That was a good diary. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                6412093

                I also like your comment:

                Many Mayans were being tortured at the same time as Saddam Hussein was killing his own people.  The differece between the two?  The U.S. supported the killing and torture in Guatemala, while the deaths in Iraq are now being used to justify an invasion to "save" Iraq.  Well, if massacres a decade ago qualify a people for liberation from a dictator, why haven't we done anything to help Guatemala?

                A slower bleed-out is not a sustainable value.

                by MrJayTee on Fri May 10, 2013 at 09:21:18 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  One of the good things Bill Clinton did was to (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              KenBee, MrJayTee, Eric Nelson, gramofsam1

              apologize for US involvement in human rights abuses. For that he was pilloried in The New Republican. That was about the time I canceled my subscription to that sick rag which is unfit to line my bird's cage.

              If there is no accountability for those who authorized torture, we can no longer say that we are a nation of laws, not men.

              by MikePhoenix on Fri May 10, 2013 at 11:05:10 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  That was indeed a good thing. (0+ / 0-)

                And part of a positive regional process.  

                As other Central American countries got their civil conflicts under control, international pressure on Guatemala increased, including pressure from the US, I'm sure.  Add economic stagnation and possible isolation, and the Guatemalan regime finally had reason to go to the table.

                The investigation Bill Clinton ordered in '95 also deserves praise.

                A slower bleed-out is not a sustainable value.

                by MrJayTee on Sat May 11, 2013 at 12:16:38 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  Hillary!!?> (0+ / 0-)

            ?? to each his or her own!

            Bradley Manning and Julian Assange are being persecuted for telling the truth. Paul Craig Roberts

            by dharmasyd on Fri May 10, 2013 at 10:24:00 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Yup, had her in mind too. n/t (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MrJayTee

        Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

        by corvo on Fri May 10, 2013 at 07:05:06 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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