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View Diary: DOJ secretly obtained AP phone records (246 comments)

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  •  benghazi, IRS and now this? (10+ / 0-)

    the President must get on top of this ASAP

    •  What makes you think he isn't? n/t (6+ / 0-)

      Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

      by corvo on Mon May 13, 2013 at 02:54:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Because he's the POTUS and not low-level FBI agent (5+ / 0-)

        This type of action is well within the FBI's wheelhouse. The very normalcy of this type of activity since the USA PATRIOT Act was signed makes the notion that it involved some higher authority an extraordinary claim, requiring, well, some kind of evidence.

        Art is the handmaid of human good.

        by joe from Lowell on Mon May 13, 2013 at 03:00:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  If he can't rein in his own DoJ (9+ / 0-)

          . . . well, you suggest what he should do next.

          I'm all ears.

          Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

          by corvo on Mon May 13, 2013 at 03:02:00 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  My point seems to have eluded you. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            shrike

            Since this almost certainly never even reached the level of the White House, there wouldn't have been any attempt to "rein in" "his own" FBI.

            BTW, you might want to ask John F. Kennedy about whether he considered the FBI to be "his own." Permanent federal law enforcement agencies are pretty independent, and don't wait around for marching orders from the White House.

            Art is the handmaid of human good.

            by joe from Lowell on Mon May 13, 2013 at 03:09:19 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  umm . . . (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              TJ, Bisbonian, Not A Bot
              there wouldn't have been any attempt to "rein in" "his own" FBI
              The White House could start, like, right now.  In fact, it has no choice but to.  YMMV.

              Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

              by corvo on Mon May 13, 2013 at 03:11:33 PM PDT

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            •  The Department of Justice is at the (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              blueoasis, Bisbonian

              heart of this story as of this early reporting - not the FBI.

              •  Right you are: a U.S. Attorney's office. (0+ / 0-)

                We're still talking about a self-directed, independent law enforcement agency. Some of of the DoJ, such as the Attorney General's office and Solicitor General's office, is very much wired into the White House, while other parts pretty much do their own thing.

                United States Attorneys are pretty far on the independent end of the spectrum. That broke down during the Bush administration - the Yglesias firing, Monica Goodling - but things seem to have gotten more or less back to normal since he left office.

                Art is the handmaid of human good.

                by joe from Lowell on Mon May 13, 2013 at 03:31:42 PM PDT

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                •  oh for fucks jesus christ sake (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Not A Bot

                  Obama chose Holder. he stood by holder through all his fuckups.

                  Obama approved a whole shitload of people in the DOJ, including Lanny Breuer who was heading up these bullshit Espionage Act prosecutions against whistleblowers, which, by the way, were a direct attack on the First Amendment rights of a Free Press that we are supposed to have because we arent supposed to be living in some shit hole 3rd word toilet where the fucking goddamn government has it's arm up everyones ass to the fucking elbow with a goddamn rubber glove made in some shit hole prison labor factory where people get payed 2 cents an hour. its fucking bullshit. this whole fucking thing is bullshit.

                  •  Decora, other than the fact that you're more (0+ / 0-)

                    comfortable (and adept) than I am in using profanity, you wrote what I'm thinking.  

                    Someone up yonder in this thread has a signature line stating "Repeal the Second Amendment."  To get in line with this administration's policies, he probably should add the First and Fourth to his repeal wish list, as well.

                    A wise man hears one word and understands two.

                    by Not A Bot on Mon May 13, 2013 at 10:16:06 PM PDT

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              •  The FBI is run by the DoJ. nt (0+ / 0-)
                •  Well, at least in theory. (0+ / 0-)

                  I can understand "Joe from Lowell" 's argument: Nobody tells the FBI what to do.  What disturbs me is the apparent complacency accompanying that little epiphany.

                  Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                  by corvo on Mon May 13, 2013 at 03:41:51 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Corvo, nobody tells the FBI what to do? (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    corvo

                    Where'd you pick up that idea?  And at this point, the president had damned well start telling the FBI what (not) to do, or he's going to watch his credibility whirlpool through a D.C. storm grate.  What's left of his credibility, anyway.  Who's running this freak show?  

                    A wise man hears one word and understands two.

                    by Not A Bot on Mon May 13, 2013 at 10:20:46 PM PDT

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                    •  Where did I pick up that idea? (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Not A Bot

                      J. Edgar Hoover.  Things haven't improved since then; the FBI directors have just become more faceless.

                      And don't even get me started on the other "national security" entities.

                      Otherwise, yes, Obama had damned well better start.  But he won't, and we all know it.

                      Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                      by corvo on Tue May 14, 2013 at 04:37:25 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Yeah, I'm pretty sure you're right. (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        corvo

                        Nothing will be done, save the requisite public promise to fix things.  Maybe appoint a commission (composed of former intel professionals, of course).

                        A wise man hears one word and understands two.

                        by Not A Bot on Tue May 14, 2013 at 08:39:57 AM PDT

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                •  Yes the FBI is the investigative arm (0+ / 0-)

                  of the DoJ, but there is a difference between AP citing the DoJ and citing the FBI as the interested party.

                  •  It would have been the "investigative arm" (0+ / 0-)

                    getting the records.

                      •  ?? (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Don midwest

                        I dont' get you.

                        Just to note:

                        In testimony in February, CIA Director John Brennan noted that the FBI had questioned him about whether he was AP's source, which he denied. He called the release of the information to the media about the terror plot an "unauthorized and dangerous disclosure of classified information
                        http://bigstory.ap.org/...
                        •  Just because the FBI interviewed Brennan, (0+ / 0-)

                          it doesn't mean that the DoJ was not leading the quest to request the phone records.  The lawyers at DoJ could have initiated the request without the FBI being a part of that decision/process.  I don't point this out to hold the FBI harmless as much as to point out that lawyers who should be more "sensitive" to Constitutional questions being fingered as the originators of this information grab gives the story more weight and potentially inflates the scandal.

                          Police - which is what the FBI effectively are - are not really trained in the law and nuances therein - lawyers, on the other hand, are and thus are more culpable in these situations.  

                          I will add that spying on a news organization like AP is no small potatoes - this kind of initiative would never be held down at the level of the FBI and not communicated up to the highest levels of DoJ - it is more likely that it rose even to the White House and Cabinet members like Gates.

                        •  too bad its perfectly legal to disclose classified (0+ / 0-)

                          information and there are no laws that forbid it, unless
                          there are certain circumstances and caveats.

                          know why? because every president releases classified
                          information and so do most congressmen. its how
                          newspapers are made and its how books are written.

                          we are going to end up like russia where the goddamn
                          government keeps only one independent radio station alive
                          (echo moscow) simply so that they will know what the fuck is going on in their own departments because their deputies
                           lie to them all the live long day.

            •  The FBI's manual opens abuse potential (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              corvo, blueoasis, joanneleon, Not A Bot

              It's not just a "low level FBI" agent outlier that is overstepping reasonable bounds.  c|net pointed out the other day:

              An FBI investigation manual updated last year, obtained by the ACLU, says it's possible to warrantlessly obtain Americans' e-mail "without running afoul" of the Fourth Amendment.
              This is on top of what I believe has been a debate in the civil liberties community over law enforcement's contention that a prosecutor's or law enforcement officer's request is enough "due process" to get whatever phone records they may be curious about (and any records swept up in a broad, "all records..." description -- "more than 1.3 million requests of wireless carriers for the cell phone records of consumers" in 2011 alone?!) without involving a warrant, a judge or any other damn meddling.

              ...be advised:  that whole "unreasonable search and seizure thing" doesn't mean what you think it means anymore.

            •  this is the same shit we have heard over and over (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Not A Bot, CharlesInCharge

              every fucking goddamn president pretends they had nothing to do with anything that went on.

              nixon had nothing to do with watergate.
              reagan had nothing to do with iran contra.
              bush had nothing to do with torture.
              clinton had nothing to do with failing to get osama.
              obama had nothing to do with the unprecedented espionage act prosecutions perpetrated under his DOJ

              now, lets cut to the real world, where if you manage a fucking mcdonalds and one of your staff burns up the french fry machine, you probably get fucking fired.

              think about that. the guys who control the biggest military on the planet have less accountability than a guy who makes fast food.

        •  Nothing to see here (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          corvo, TJ, blueoasis, Victor Ward, joanneleon

          sort of thing?

          Well, color me surprised.

        •  Obama signaled the green light to the FBI (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          corvo, blueoasis, Victor Ward, Not A Bot

          when he has made a point of punishing whistleblowers. By his actions, he has told law enforcement "Game on!".

        •  it is WAY too late for all this (0+ / 0-)

          pearl clutching, especially from liberals for whom President Obama represented the second coming.  And I sure didn't hear much complaint from the Conservatives  when the Bush Regime instituted such measures.

          But hey, if you have nothing to hide,  you have nothing to fear.

          don't always believe what you think

          by claude on Mon May 13, 2013 at 03:08:56 PM PDT

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          •  No pearl clutching (4+ / 0-)

            by those of us in the DFH cabal.   Disappointed, yes, but not surprised.  The hubris of neo liberals has rendered them unable to discern who their real enemies are - the GOP.

            Adopting the GOP world view on abuse of government power is bound to come back to haunt you.  The GOP is not your friend.  They will come after you with everything they've got, and it becomes especially easy when you're simply copying dirty tricks out of their own manual.

            "If you can't take their money, eat their food, drink their booze and then vote against them, you have no business being up there."

            by Betty Pinson on Mon May 13, 2013 at 03:38:17 PM PDT

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        •  It'd be easier to (7+ / 0-)

          buy that line of argument if the Obama administration weren't historically awful when it comes to trying to punish leakers and reporters who publish leaked info.  

        •  Wrong, misuse of generally bullshit aphorism. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          corvo, blueoasis

          Abuse of power at any level of authority by US government is not ever an extraordinary claim per se, and neither is the DOJ keeping the White House in the loop regarding such an endeavor. Congress they will likely keep out of the loop, but it isn't wise to assume that Iran-Contra, Cointelpro, or this matter were secret from the rest of the administration without some basis.

          That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

          by enhydra lutris on Mon May 13, 2013 at 03:14:57 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Oh, he is (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      corvo

      hence the spying.

    •  The problem might be (0+ / 0-)

      that he has been on top of it.

      A wise man hears one word and understands two.

      by Not A Bot on Mon May 13, 2013 at 06:21:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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