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View Diary: IRS v. Tea Party & DOJ v. AP are BOTH GOP-Fabricated Non-Scandals (374 comments)

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  •  Maybe the full release makes more sense: (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    howarddream, ericlewis0, Eyesbright

    Ferreting out a government leaker...when that leak is a crime....seems to me to be just the sort of thing that justifies surveillance.  Moreover, the freedom of the press does not extend to getting illegal leaks; those aren't immune from investigation because a reporter is involved,  and going around the reporters to an independent company that happens to have the information needed, whether its the phone company or a suspect.

    I think where the ACLU makes its mistake is in thinking that the contents of conversations was released.  It uses the word "surveillance" as if there were taps.

    "We're now in one of those periods when the reality of intense pressure on the middle class diverges from long-held assumptions of how the American bargain should work" --James Fallows

    by Inland on Tue May 14, 2013 at 06:49:44 AM PDT

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    •  They took TWO MONTHS of records (0+ / 0-)

      From twenty phone lines, used by 100 journalists (link here). I somehow doubt that all of these people were working with the "criminal source."

      "He, O men, is the wisest, who, like Socrates, knows that his wisdom is in truth worth nothing."--Socrates

      by TealTerror on Tue May 14, 2013 at 08:56:17 AM PDT

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      •  They may not have known who was working with the (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ericlewis0, Eyesbright

        criminal source.  IF they didn't know, then the subpoena can't be more narrow.

        "We're now in one of those periods when the reality of intense pressure on the middle class diverges from long-held assumptions of how the American bargain should work" --James Fallows

        by Inland on Tue May 14, 2013 at 09:01:46 AM PDT

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        •  So you're fine with them taking phone records (0+ / 0-)

          of potentially 100 journalists because they didn't know which one they wanted so, hell, why not take them all? All the innocent journalists who got their privacy compromised is just collateral damage, I suppose.

          I don't deny this is a rational move by the DOJ to get what they want. I deny that we should let them do it. Does the 4th Amendment mean anything to you?

          "He, O men, is the wisest, who, like Socrates, knows that his wisdom is in truth worth nothing."--Socrates

          by TealTerror on Tue May 14, 2013 at 09:16:19 AM PDT

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          •  Sure, if that's what's needed to discover (0+ / 0-)

            the people who leak operational details, like we've penetrated AQ.  

            I'm reminded of the Boston manhunt, in that the people who object to the means don't provide better ones, leading me to believe that they consider law enforcement and counterterrorism to be irrelevant to their considerations.  I can't be so sanguine about it; the journalist's phone list isn't really private.  Everyone they called knew a part of it.  As did their phone company.

            "We're now in one of those periods when the reality of intense pressure on the middle class diverges from long-held assumptions of how the American bargain should work" --James Fallows

            by Inland on Tue May 14, 2013 at 01:58:12 PM PDT

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            •  I like this part the best: (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Little
              leading me to believe that they consider law enforcement and counterterrorism to be irrelevant to their considerations.
              You're accusing people who criticize the government on these matters of not caring about terrorism. Lovely.

              If you can't see the problem with violating the privacy of one hundred journalists to find the identity of a leaker of all things, I think we've reached an area of fundamental disagreement and there's no point in continuing this discussion.

              "He, O men, is the wisest, who, like Socrates, knows that his wisdom is in truth worth nothing."--Socrates

              by TealTerror on Tue May 14, 2013 at 04:21:36 PM PDT

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              •  Well, I didn't, until the last post. (0+ / 0-)

                I only thought that it never entered your mind.  But now that you've poo poohed the leak of information about how our counter terror efforts planted an agent within al Qaeda, I'm going to go with yes, don't care.

                As for not caring about the privacy of people using a work phone, yeah, not really seeing it.  

                "We're now in one of those periods when the reality of intense pressure on the middle class diverges from long-held assumptions of how the American bargain should work" --James Fallows

                by Inland on Wed May 15, 2013 at 09:17:14 AM PDT

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