Skip to main content

View Diary: Sullivan: white people are poodles, black and brown people are beagles (241 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  He's presuming any of us are purebreds (9+ / 0-)

    when most of us are mongrels.  Humans do not breed by AKC conformity.  

    And he's letting his racism show.  

    We do not forgive. We do not forget. The whole world is watching.

    by Tracker on Wed May 15, 2013 at 06:40:21 AM PDT

    •  Oh brother. Everyone here loves to (0+ / 0-)

      call other people racist, because somehow it makes it so clear that you yourself must not be. I've read Sullivan for years, and haven't seen one racist entry. The fact that people here are interpreting the dog analogy to be "racist" is an excellent example of looking for racism with a built-in bias for finding it.

      •  Tell your hero that (10+ / 0-)
        I haven’t had time to read the thing
        Sullivan admits he hasn't even read Richwine's work and then goes on to stare at the clouds and describe Richwine's findings as correct. Particularly galling are Sullivan's comments at the end lamenting why people aren't taking the time to criticize the inherent value of IQ in the first place (a value which Sullivan himself is extremely slow to cast doubt upon, hence his odd remarks on poodles and beagles). The fact is, IQ has been cast into doubt for DECADES and no reasonable scholar, least of all a Harvard PhD, should be using IQ demographics in this day and age as their basis for determinations on intelligence across demographics. This is actually a pretty settled area, just ask anybody working in education. Or at least anybody working in education who isn't looking for a lifetime sinecure at the Heritage Foundation. I'd like to know what inducements Sullivan may have been offered (or received) to attempt this foray into career rehabilitation for Richwine. It's a reasonable suspicion, given that Sullivan travels in many of the same circles as Richwine.
        •  Perhaps you need to re-read what Sullivan wrote (0+ / 0-)

          In his very first paragraph he makes the point exactly 180 degrees from what you state Sullivan wrote.  This is what Sullivan wrote:

          And I am emphatically not defending everything that Richwine has said and done
          Your smear later down about financial enrichment for Sullivan for coming to Richwine's "defense" is pure crap and you should be ashamed.

          We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. Albert Einstein

          by theotherside on Wed May 15, 2013 at 09:44:00 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  WHOA! (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mikejay611, a2nite, MrJayTee
        Everyone here loves to (0+ / 0-)

        call other people racist

        yo NOT FUCKING COOL.  

        This comment is dedicated to my mellow Adept2U and his Uncle Marcus

        by mallyroyal on Wed May 15, 2013 at 07:45:07 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Try googling "Andrew Sullivan racism. . . (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        johanus

        Racist?  I see a man struggling with his instinctive racism and his desire to be an intellectual.  The intellectual facade is not enough to allow the man to shine through.

        Here's the link from a November 2011 post. . .
        http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/...

        Two points: research is not about helping people; it's about finding out stuff. And I have long opposed the political chilling of free inquiry into any area of legitimate curiosity or research. I'm not going to stop now. Secondly, I agree that there would be very little, if any, use for this data in our society, apart from the existence of affirmative action. But when public policy holds that all racial difference in, say, college degrees, are due to racism, a truth claim has already been made. So the p.c. egalitarians have made this a public and social issue by a statement of fact they subsequently do not want to see debated or challenged using the data. That's an illiberal position, in my view.

        I remain gob-smacked by the resilience of IQ differences between broad racial groups, controlling for much other data. Maybe if we understood what was going on – which particular and subtle combination of genetics, culture and generation makes this the result – we could help increase equality of opportunity. Maybe racial categories themselves have become so fluid and opaque the whole area is now moot. Maybe we should accept that differences in outcomes among racial groups have some element of irreducibility to them. Maybe the answer is to abolish racial affirmative action and replace it by class-based forms. Maybe the answer is to abolish affirmative action altogether (my preferred outcome). But all these questions depend on a thriving research culture which has been chilled by politics. That's what saddens me.

        the fact that you're right is nothing more than interesting

        by Egg on Wed May 15, 2013 at 07:55:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  He is not (0+ / 0-)

      I would suggest reading the actual post that Sullivan wrote instead of relying on this ad hominem attack of a diary.

      Here is something that Sullivan wrote in that piece:

      But please don’t say truly stupid things like race has no biological element to it or that there is no data on racial differences in IQ (even though those differences are mild compared with overwhelming similarity). Denying empirical reality is not a good thing in any circumstance. In a university context, it is an embrace of illiberalism at its most pernicious and seductive: because its motives are good.

      or this

      What I do want to insist is that the premise behind almost all the attacks – that there is no empirical evidence of IQ differences between broad racial categories – is not true. It is true (pdf), if you accept the broad racial categories Americans use as shorthand for a bewilderingly complex DNA salad (a big if, of course).

      He kinda says what you said.  Are you letting your racism show through too?  ;^)

      We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. Albert Einstein

      by theotherside on Wed May 15, 2013 at 09:40:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site