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View Diary: Chris Hedges NPR Interview: On The Right Wing "Proto-Fascist Movement" in The U.S. (232 comments)

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  •  I'll put you down for option 3 (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    4CasandChlo, Words In Action

    But perhaps going down that path requires more...revolutionary rhetoric to stir the awakening that you seek.

    •  It's kind of tricky. I'm doing what I can to help (14+ / 0-)

      in sparking that awakening (along with many other people), but I don't want to get to the point I get too much traction because the system is set up to crush "leaders," in multiple ways.

      Is not that I'm afraid, so much as understanding that once you (as a leader) get any traction, then the "system" targets you and your voice is extinguished.

      It's very important that there is a massive awakening and that everybody becomes a leader--a leaderless revolution.

      •  I don't agree that the discussion with RWers is. . (8+ / 0-)

        Worthless.

        It  may not be the only means needed but it has tremendous value.

        There is a herd mentality afloat in the conservative movement and the herd was rounded up using sophisticated manipulation of information and passion.

        There is a not insignificant percentage of these people (not all) that could be reached IF there was a more active campaign to inform and combat the drumbeat that they are following. Our ideas do not speak for themselves, we must speak for our ideas.

        HOW we speak, how we reach out is also worth considerable thought and effort.

        Blessed are the peacemakers, the poor, the meek and the sick. Message to Repug Fundies: "DO you really wonder "what would Jesus do?" I didn't think so.

        by 4CasandChlo on Thu May 16, 2013 at 11:30:24 AM PDT

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        •  It is imperative we challenge them, via discussion (14+ / 0-)

          The Overton window is real, and won't move back without a public voicing of the alternatives.  IMHO Obama's biggist failing is not being that voice.

        •  Good start may be not calling them "conservatives" (5+ / 0-)

          They no longer represent anything remotely close--because even today, the term still carries some notion of logic, restraint and wisdom.  They are not conservatives.  They are radicals with radical ideas.

          If the plutocrats begin the program, we will end it. -- Eugene Debs.

          by livjack on Thu May 16, 2013 at 03:51:12 PM PDT

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          •  The correct term for them is reactionaries (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Ray Pensador

            or a regressive. A conservative wants to maintain the status quo. A reactionary or a regressive seeks to roll back the clock to an earlier time in histry by eliminating reforms or policies that are currently in place. Many of these folks, particularly Grover Norquist and Karl Rove, have openly stated their affectation and desire to roll the clock back to the Gilded Age McKinley Era, albeit with modern technology.

            At that time labor was extremely cheap. There was little or no middle class, working people were dirt poor; a highly skilled worker . There were very few constraints on the rich. No business regulation. No social safety net run by the government; it was all private charity and woefully inadequate.  The KKK and other right wing domestic terrorists ran rampant, with frequent lynchings of people of color. And racial discrimination and apartheid were the law of the land with the 1896 Plessy v. Ferguson supreme court case, and Santa Clara v Southenr Pacific RR had also codified corporate personhood.

            Life was often nasty, brutish and short for 90-95 percent of the population. Read Wisconsin Death Trip for an account of that time.

            It was a great time to be one of the mega rich, not so much for anyone else. The whole Gilded Age is a wet dream for the current crop of reactionaries who are de-facto running Congress.

            Trickle Down Economics 101: They get the golden parachute, we get the golden shower.

            by NoMoreLies on Fri May 17, 2013 at 10:50:51 AM PDT

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            •  Highly skilled workers and craftsmen (0+ / 0-)

              during the 1890s (McKinley Era) in the US earned the equivalent of $3,000 in current (2013 dollars) during that time. The average worker earned even less.

              Trickle Down Economics 101: They get the golden parachute, we get the golden shower.

              by NoMoreLies on Fri May 17, 2013 at 11:17:39 AM PDT

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              •  Yes--my son was studying this period in APUSH (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Ray Pensador

                this year, so I have recently refreshed my knowledge about this along with him.  Wealth divide/no regs a huge problem for hey! the 99% back then...the cycle keeps repeating itself.

                I like the idea of calling them "regressives."

                Radicals and reactionaries is still sounding too positive for the likes of these.  I think "regressives" is perfect.

                If the plutocrats begin the program, we will end it. -- Eugene Debs.

                by livjack on Fri May 17, 2013 at 11:42:03 AM PDT

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      •  Some might say (0+ / 0-)

        That the best way to spark an awakening is to find or create the narrative of a martyr whose legacy can be exploited.

        •  Wow.... that's very, well, sort of religiously (4+ / 0-)

          inspired.  The Tunisian fruit vendor became a martyr, literally, but I'm not sure how many are willing to self-immolate.

          A greater awareness, an awakening, a movement in the Overton Window: however one phrases it, we need at least the concept that "Things do not have to be this way."

          "This way" is in fact, very new to this country.  Up until Reagan, we had a markedly more liberal nation. In fact, today, Reagan and Nixon would be considered liberals and Eisenhower would practically be a DFH if he weren't bald.

          That perception or view through the Overton Window was changed through a long campaign of hate and divisiveness.

          Perhaps it is possible to change that herd hate-think through more awareness, more community building, more connectedness.  And perhaps not.

          But certainly nothing will change for the better if people do not speak up. I think "more awareness, more community building, and more connectedness" may be additions to your original list of three alternatives:

          (1) maintain the status quo,
          (2) to attempt non-rational discussion, or
          (3) to engage in conflict of a form that does not involve discussion.
          I wonder if you agree or would fit those into one of your three choices?

          "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

          by YucatanMan on Thu May 16, 2013 at 02:28:10 PM PDT

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      •  Exactly one of the lessons of the earlier (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Words In Action

        leaders. Which the Arab Spring and Occupy organizers had learned from those who have studied those movements and generated new approaches. The most widely known guy is lost in the bookmarks and has escaped my gray cells.

        "People, even more than things, have to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed and redeemed; never throw out anyone. " Audrey Hepburn "A Beautiful Woman"

        by Ginny in CO on Thu May 16, 2013 at 04:23:11 PM PDT

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    •  If "revolutionary rhetoric" (3+ / 0-)

      could accomplish anything by itself, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

      Nothing human is alien to me.

      by WB Reeves on Thu May 16, 2013 at 12:09:52 PM PDT

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