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View Diary: N.C. civil disobedience: Nearly 100 arrested so far for protesting ALEC-ification of state (73 comments)

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  •  Still don't get this... (2+ / 0-)
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    MsSpentyouth, Ohiodem1

    I'm assuming NC doesn't have an independent redistricting commission. So...doesn't that mean redistricting requires either the passage of a law (which requires a governor's signature or a veto override) or, if the two cannot agree, a decision by a judicial panel? At least here in CA, judicial panels have been far less likely to gerrymander, regardless of the parties involved. 2000 CA => D's did pro-incumbent gerrymander. 1990 CA => D leg and R gov split, judges wrote generally sensible districts. 1980 CA => D's did pro-Dem gerrymander.

    And in any case, even w/ a gerrymander it was a NC statewide election in 2012 that elected an R governor and voted for Romney, unlike all the other 2008-Blue states. It can't be said that NC's current mess was somehow imposed on NC, NC voters sadly voted for it.

    (Good for the protest (topic of the diary) by the way, hopefully you're convincing your neighbors to choose otherwise next time. But this wasn't caused by a gerrymander, there was a statewide choice.)

    •  Huh? (3+ / 0-)
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      Black Max, Ohiodem1, Marihilda

      I'm confused about how the subject of the gubernatorial election came up. That's not the result of gerrymandering.  

      FishOutOfWater and I were discussing US Congressional redistricting: US Rep. Renee Ellmers' district was the result of carving up US Rep. David Price's 36th district in bizarre configurations, which was accomplished by gerrymandering.

      You can read about gerrymandering and the 2012 North Carolina elections here in the NY Times. Or here in Wikipedia, which uses North Carolina's 12th US Congressional district as an example of gerrymandering. Or here in Mother Jones.

      •  ALEC-ification of state... (1+ / 0-)
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        MsSpentyouth

        ...cannot occur without both losing the governorship and the legislature. Gerrymandering, by itself, cannot cause the ALEC-ification of a state because the governor's office must also be ALEC-d, and that requires a statewide choice.

        My further puzzle is not clarified by the links you included, they described the fact of NC district gerrymandering but not how it was that a pro-R gerrymander would occur with a Democratic governor. Wouldn't be the only such case, NY's state senate apparently has similar issues, but one assumes that Cuomo agreeing to that would come up in a primary if he runs for Pres in 2016.

        •  Hmmm ... did I say that gerrymandering caused (1+ / 0-)
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          Ohiodem1

          the ALEC-ification by itself? If so, please point out the specific text in which I said that and I'll correct it.

          FishOutOfWater (who's from my area of the Triangle region in N.C.) and I were having a sidebar discussion about U.S. Rep. Renee Ellmers' newly configured district and her refusal to travel to her "new" areas to meet with constituents who are not Republican, as well as her office's refusal to schedule meetings in her home office of Dunn or in her DC office with constituents who aren't Republican.

          •  I was replying to FishOutOfWater (0+ / 0-)
            Redistricting done in 2012 rigged the districts so that Republicans could gain control with a minority of votes.
            1) What would possess a Democratic governor to agree to this?

            2) Even granting this, how does this explain the current situation? Nationally, Republicans had a minority of House votes. NC? Maybe. But they certainly got a plurality of NC's votes for the executive. So gerrymandering is at best necessary but not sufficient.

        •  In answer to your question. (2+ / 0-)
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          blue in NC, Hubbard Squash

          Our Democratic gubernatorial candidate did not get much support from the national Party. Leastwise that's what I was told during the campaign. Also our State Party was in disarray because of some scandals at the State Executive Committee and Party Chairmanship level and was engaging in what appeared to be at the time a pissing contest. Walter Dalton was a tepid candidate and McCrory had a lot of name recognition and IMO undeserved credibility as the former mayor of Charlotte. He was a business guy gonna take care of business. Gag. It was a confluence of things like that that cost us the governorship. Personally, I'd put the loss solidly in the lap of the Democratic Party both state and national. So much for 50 state strategy.

          Force is the midwife of every old society pregnant with a new one. Marx

          by Marihilda on Sat May 18, 2013 at 05:43:02 AM PDT

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    •  Please...if you don't understand something, don't (0+ / 0-)

      comment so "authoritatively" about it.

      Redistricting in North Carolina cannot be vetoed by the governor.

      The gerrymandering is so bad that city blocks are split between districts. Republicans gained their huge majority in both chambers in the 2010 mid-term elections when Democrats were "asleep at the switch" and Republican operatives such as Art Pope poured millions of dollars into obscure districts where the incumbent Democrats had never had to spend more than a few thousand dollars. These Republicans used not only voter registration statistics to draw their convoluted district lines (state and congressional) but also precinct-by-precinct election results for the previous two gubernatorial and presidential elections. North Carolina has a history of voters crossing party lines, voting Democratic for state offices and voting Republican for president, so the redistricting process worked to incorporate those voting patterns into new, Republican-favored districts.

      And, as a commenter explained below, the 2012 Democratic gubernatorial candidate had no money, no national party support, and a tepid state Democratic party behind him.

      Love or hate McCrory - and I particularly loathe him since I have seen firsthand his self-serving phoniness and rightwing pandering - he spent a ton of money (much of it from PACs), and worked has crooked ass off campaigning for the governorship for nearly eight years. I know many Democrats who voted for him because they thought he had been "moderate" as mayor of Charlotte. Sure fooled them!

      "Bernie Madoff's mistake was stealing from the rich. If he'd stolen from the poor he'd have a cabinet position." -OPOL

      by blue in NC on Sat May 18, 2013 at 06:09:26 AM PDT

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