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View Diary: On Productive Political Discourse (80 comments)

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  •  I always thought the civil rights movement was (5+ / 0-)

    yes, was, built on complaints. I lived through it. It was Hell NO, we don't accept sitting at the back of the bus. Hell, NO, it's not right to make us go to substandard schools, etc. It was all complaints and rightly so. Those complaints waked up the rest of the nation who did not realize the things that were going on and how wrong they were. That's why politicians had the support to make great changes happen.

    But I do think your point about negativity is correct. It cannot be the main topic because, yes it does get boring and one can feel trapped in that mindset of oh, noes, here we go again. We have to do much more than that and we do.

    But I see DK differently, in general, than you do, I guess. As inclusiveheart said, we have had influence, and you can see how the discourse has changed as people become enlightened, from 2005 when I joined to today, the difference in attitudes towards economic issues and our plutocracy have changed and our understandings deepened as to the way the system works.

    Over the years I have learned SO MUCH from the diaries on a wide range of topics, especially economic, government, politics, the military and the environment. It has been a huge free educational foundation for lots of us I expect, as well as a grand support system at the same time.

    I might say also that inclusiveheart is a great example here of the kind of comment-maker who always adds substance to a discussion.

    "extreme concentration of income is incompatible with real democracy.... the truth is that the whole nature of our society is at stake." Paul Krugman

    by Gorette on Sat May 18, 2013 at 03:25:11 PM PDT

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    •  I would say the same about you, friend. (1+ / 0-)
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      Thanks for contributing ;)

    •  not sure I agree (2+ / 0-)
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      samddobermann, 3goldens

      If the Civil Rights Movement had been all about the complaints  
      (which had been true forever) I doubt it ever would have developed traction with people all over the country who didn't live in the racist south and weren't directly exposed to / affected by it.  But, particularly through the eloquence  of Malcolm and MLK (and a generation of folksingers), it developed a strong positive voice that everyone with a heart and a soul wanted to be part of.

      A movement succeeds by growing, by expressing its message so well that more and more people involve themselves in it.  I don't see much of that going on here these days.  All day today Sarah Palin has been at the top of the list.  Really, does anybody here not know by now she's an idiot?  Even republicans have figured that one out.

    •  but with civil rights it wasn't the (1+ / 0-)
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      complaining that got anything done. It was the actions: the sit ins, the marches — and the insane reactions of the white entrenched power class to them, the bus rides and the bus boycotts, the voter registration drives and going to jail (and staying there) and all sorts of other ACTIONS.

      All the complaining in the world did no good. It didn't change a thing.

      The Occupy movement wasn't sitting around complaining as was evident here on DKos. It was an action, a demonstration and because it was a mobilization for that which most people sat around complaining on blogs and else where it took off and incited groups around the world. It faded out because is eschewed structure though remnants are still active.

      Criticism looses legitimacy when it deteriorates into name calling and ascribing motivation to the person(s) about whom you are complaining.

      I'm asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... *I'm asking you to believe in yours.* Barack Obama

      by samddobermann on Sun May 19, 2013 at 06:02:38 AM PDT

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      •  Occupy showed us the way (1+ / 0-)
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        Occupy may now be moribund, but the genie is now out of the bottle.

        It saddened me how many people here at DKos castigated Occupy as "useless" since it wasn't concerned with electoral politics.

        Me, I think elections mean diddley doo when neither party is on your side.

      •  What in hell do you think GOT PEOPLE TO sit in?? (0+ / 0-)

        Got them to march? Their complaints. And being fed up with being told to stuff it. Becoming aware of things that were wrong started things off and then leadership in nonviolence path led to change.

        No one is saying complaining is the answer to social wrongs per se. But neither is it a bugaboo. It's part of the process of change. That's all I'm saying. True what you say about name calling and a focus on complaints. Once people are aware of the problems they need to move to the next step.

        "extreme concentration of income is incompatible with real democracy.... the truth is that the whole nature of our society is at stake." Paul Krugman

        by Gorette on Sun May 19, 2013 at 09:44:59 AM PDT

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