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View Diary: How Citizens United is saving progressive politics (93 comments)

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  •  Where has this happened? (5+ / 0-)

    And in particular, where has it happened in ways which could not have happened but-for CU?

    •  Here in North Carolina. (7+ / 0-)

      Big money rolled in during the 2010 election, and we lost everything.

      Huge spending on TV ads against individual state reps.

      The highest form of spiritual practice is self observation with compassion.

      by NCJim on Wed May 22, 2013 at 09:09:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

        •  What do you think? nt (0+ / 0-)
          •  cvill towne - we saw big personal contributions (0+ / 0-)

            to c 4s and direct expenditures but so far there is no evidence that corporations were big players in 2010, or even 2012.

            If you have evidence we would all like to see it.

            "let's talk about that"

            by VClib on Wed May 22, 2013 at 01:45:05 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Rather revealing comment on your part - (0+ / 0-)

              however, not surprising in the least.

              As you well know, 503 c4 rules allow anonymous financial contributions.

              from this diary by fellow Kossack Liberty Equality Fraternity and Trees that was published this past Sunday:

              http://www.dailykos.com/...

              "527 organizations, unlike 501 (c)4's, have to publicly disclose their donors and expenditures.:

              So, this counter-evidence that you are so concerned with is concealed by tax law.

              Again, you know this already.

              The "extreme wing" of the Democratic Party is the wing that is hell-bent on protecting the banks and credit card companies. ~ Kos

              by ozsea1 on Wed May 22, 2013 at 03:08:23 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  dept of corrections (0+ / 0-)

                I want refer to 501 (c)(4) code throughout my comment.

                Thanks.

                The "extreme wing" of the Democratic Party is the wing that is hell-bent on protecting the banks and credit card companies. ~ Kos

                by ozsea1 on Wed May 22, 2013 at 03:12:49 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  oz - as someone who has spent time (0+ / 0-)

                inside a Fortune 500 company, although it was a long time ago, I agree with many observers of big corporations that there are no secrets. Therefore, if many big corporations were actively supporting c 4s I think there would be some information that would leak out to the public.

                "let's talk about that"

                by VClib on Wed May 22, 2013 at 05:36:35 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Additional reading (0+ / 0-)

                  http://www.dailykos.com/...

                  seriously, we're supposed to don't worry, be happy and "...agree with many observers of big corporations that there are no secrets." ???

                  What do you call these Wall St firms? Non-profits?

                  Sheesh.

                  The "extreme wing" of the Democratic Party is the wing that is hell-bent on protecting the banks and credit card companies. ~ Kos

                  by ozsea1 on Wed May 22, 2013 at 10:17:53 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  There are plenty of secrets (0+ / 0-)

                  in the C-suite. Not so much among junior employees.

                  •  cville townie - I was a corporate level officer (0+ / 0-)

                    at the home office, but it was a different era. There is no doubt that private corporations made contributions to c4s and senior executives of public companies made huge contributions to c4s and also made independent expenditures. Also, some public corporations disclosed, even though they didn't have to, that they made contributions to c4s. I just don't think there was wide spread secret contributions of corporate cash, not employee PACs, from public companies. In part because in the post Sar-Box world lots of people know whenever a big public company spends money. There are no longer slush funds where the CEO can keep large expenses undisclosed to accountants and auditors.

                    None of us has any data, so its just speculation on my part.

                    "let's talk about that"

                    by VClib on Thu May 23, 2013 at 11:47:20 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  OK, but (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      VClib

                      to be clear, and consistent with what you are saying, that still leaves all the privately held companies like Cargill and Koch.

                      And with CEO pay as high as it is in this country, the amount of private donations and/or independent expenditures from C-suite officers of public companies shouldn't be underestimated.

                      Furthermore, a lot of the wealthy types who are large non-institutional investors are throwing some serious cash behind politics they hope will boost their investments.

              •  oz - I have a very clear understanding of the (0+ / 0-)

                differences in c3s, c4s and 527s, unlike most of our fellow DKOS members, including many writing diaries on the subject. I read the diary you provided as a link and made several comments in the thread, some to correct people who were making factual mistakes.

                "let's talk about that"

                by VClib on Wed May 22, 2013 at 05:42:08 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I saw that. (0+ / 0-)

                  Did you correct the diarist him or herself on factual errors?
                  If so, I missed that. Please link me to those particular comments if you did.

                  As for this

                  inside a Fortune 500 company, although it was a long time ago, I agree with many observers of big corporations that there are no secrets. Therefore, if many big corporations were actively supporting c 4s I think there would be some information that would leak out to the public.
                  It may have been so, "a long time ago", but most definitely is not true today, and your confident assurances are unconvincing.

                  I understand that you feel the need to comment about your "concern" to educate and "inform" us; you and/or your clients have a lot at stake in the market as it is, and movement toward greater corporate transparency and disclosure, especially regarding private corporate influence on our public governance, injects an element of "uncertainty", a frowny face on our financial betters as it were.

                  Many many diaries have been published here (face-checked and peer-reviewed by Kossacks like you) at DK which describe in great detail of the runaway level of corporate "secrets" - they have a lot to hide and many reasons to hide them.

                  The "extreme wing" of the Democratic Party is the wing that is hell-bent on protecting the banks and credit card companies. ~ Kos

                  by ozsea1 on Wed May 22, 2013 at 06:12:24 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

    •  Seems like it made a difference in 2010 (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Albanius, scott5js, AoT

      Outside groups spent lots of money on house races in 2010: http://sunlightfoundation.com/...

      In addition, money from these outside groups probably freed up other entities to spend money elsewhere, include the state government races. What I'd like to see is more info on how much of the money went to state races, as that had a huge impact on redistricting.

      I'm not 100% sure this wouldn't have been possible anyway, given how loose election laws were already. But it seems like the sums of money spent likely went up so much due to CU and disproportionately benefited Republicans in 2010.

      •  Not arguing with that but expanding... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        noemie maxwell

        2010 was a disaster (my opinion) because of dis-motivated people in the middle and on the left who sat out the elections.   We allowed the election of many state legislators that took census data and reapportioned with great bias, and that will largely live with the country for the next decade.  

        Not to offend, but we have foolish ideologues on the left as well, who righteously "protested" against people because they werent "pure" enough, and in 2010 let the tea party outrage win.  

        •  We Had the Most Massively Negligent Party Effort (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          AoT, noemie maxwell

          in over 100 years.

          If the left is big enough to throw an election by pouting then its damned well big enough for the politicians to pander to them.

          The fact that they haven't, since before disco, gives you a good fix on the size of the left.

          Youth stayed home big time, so did Blacks and Latinos, so did women.

          Not whiney activists.

          We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

          by Gooserock on Wed May 22, 2013 at 10:19:41 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Fair question. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Gooserock

      I don't have data to answer it right now. I think what you're seeing in Wisconsin, for example (as well as Ohio to some extent),  with a seemingly radicalized Republican state Senate/legislature doing the bidding of a clearly money-corrupted GOP governor is probably the result of an influx of corporate money with its primary focus of destroying unions.  In other words Republicans in these states are doing things that are unusually radical -- even for Republicans. I think that's a reflection of increased corporate pressure.   I would like to research that but it would take some time.

      The second part of your question is probably more difficult to guage. I think there's probably a psychological effect permitting freer corporate influence as a result of CU that didn't exist before due to liability concerns. But that's hard to quantify.

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