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View Diary: All of the Above includes petroleum coke (23 comments)

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  •  I'm always confused about (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    6412093

    what all the implications of various financing options are . .  . for example, do any of the following involve actual outlay of taxpayer $$?

    So over $2 billion in Gulf Opportunity (GO Zone) hurricane reconstruction bonds, already pledged to Leucadia, along with $261 million in DOE loan guarantees, languished, unspent, for the last 5 years, while Leucadia regrouped.
    the context is that loan guarantees for nuclear power, for example, really don't.  
    •  The GO Zone (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Roadbed Guy

      hurricane reconstruction bonds allow developers to borrow money at lower interest rates.

      The federal DOE money was earmarked for "clean coal,"  and DOE describes it as cost-shared financial assistance, which is "real" money.

      Orly, it isn't evidence just because you downloaded it from the internet.

      by 6412093 on Wed May 22, 2013 at 08:41:49 AM PDT

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      •  Thanks for the information, that seems (0+ / 0-)

        different than the loan guarantees for nuclear power, e.g.,

        In his $3.8 trillion budget plan for 2011, released last week, Obama called for boosting loan guarantees to $55 billion to help jump-start construction of U.S. nuclear plants.
        link

        you may have noticed any number of diaries here at DailyKos bemoaning this massive giveaway to the nuclear power industry (which is going to kill us all, the horror, the horror!).

        Leaving aside the "kill us all" aspect for a minute and focusing on the taxpayer giveaway aspect, the way I understand it is that the money would not come out of the federal treasury, but would instead be borrowed from a commercial lender and the government would "guarantee" that it would be repaid (i.e., that's what a loan guarantee is, right?).

        but to get this loan guarantee, the company has to pay the feds big $$s up front, presumably to cover the risk of default:

        A U.S. loan-guarantee program is testing how much risk the Obama administration is willing to take to revive the nuclear-power industry.

        Constellation Energy Group Inc. said last week it was pulling out of talks on a $7.5 billion loan guarantee to build a reactor at its Calvert Cliffs facility in Maryland. The estimated $880 million the company would have to pay the Treasury Department was “shockingly high,” Chief Operating Officer Michael Wallace said in an Oct. 8 letter to the Energy Department

        link

        So at the end of the day (figuratively speaking) the company would have to pay  back the loan to whatever bank they borrowed it from PLUS they'd have given the federal treasury $880 million.  Which they balked at and cancelled the project, btw.

        Basically the loan guarantee program would not cost the federal government anything but would instead (potentially) generate a bit of revenue.  

        In any event, I suspect that these federal giveaways aren't as lucrative as they appear initially, considering that the petcoke project highlight in the diary is also languishing.

        •  These subsidies (0+ / 0-)

          came from several different pots of money, with different benefits/disadvantages.

          As you pointed out, the nuke loan guarantees aren't truly a cash giveaway.

          But many of the big industrial projects like some of the bankrupted solar companies had loan guarantees which now must be made up by the feds.

          Others also got actual cash, but it is a fraction of the total cost, as in this case.

          Orly, it isn't evidence just because you downloaded it from the internet.

          by 6412093 on Wed May 22, 2013 at 11:22:06 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Besides the loan guarantees, there were corrupt (0+ / 0-)

      deals to hit the public with above-market prices for the fuels produced for thirty years. When that deal broke down in Indiana in both the courts and the legislature, Leucadia backed out of the project.

      In Indiana, Carbon Taxes You (Not)

      Yes, that title is based on the old Arte Johnson and Yakov Smirnoff acts documented at TV Tropes.

      In Soviet Russia, Trope Mocks You

      Ceterem censeo, gerrymandra delenda est

      by Mokurai on Wed May 22, 2013 at 06:22:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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