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View Diary: Kos and Front Pagers: draw a clear, bright line on Freedom of the Press (152 comments)

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  •  to be fair (0+ / 0-)

    How do we know that our mole was going to be the bomber, as opposed to, say, a handler of the bomber?  

     In fact, if it was the bomber, it's unlikely he would have ever known anything about the bombmaker, but this operative did find out enough for us to take him out.  

    And as to the mole's reception after his failure... do you honestly believe that failing upwards is just an American thing?    Apparently emptywheel does, since they roundly mock John Brennan for doing precisely that.  

    Conservatives need to realize that their Silent Moral Majority is neither silent, nor moral, nor a majority.

    by nominalize on Thu May 23, 2013 at 05:33:54 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  What failure? (3+ / 0-)

      Do you mean this failure:

      In a stunning intelligence coup, a dangerous al Qaeda bomb cell in Yemen was successfully infiltrated by an inside source who secretly worked for the CIA and several other intelligence agencies, authorities revealed to ABC News.

      The inside source is now "safely out of Yemen," according to one international intelligence official, and was able to bring with him to Saudi Arabia the bomb al Qaeda thought was going to be detonated on a U.S.-bound aircraft.

      As for Marcy Wheeler (aka emptywheel), you should really read her, as she has been researching and writing about this and related issues for a long long time and is highly trustworthy.  Here's a handy timeline of events that she's put together, which includes:
      It turns out Fahd al-Quso, whom the government alleged was Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula’s external operations director when he was killed in a drone strike May 6 of last year, never lived to see the AP’s UndieBomb 2.0 story, which presumably described a plot he masterminded. That’s because he died during the time period AP was delaying publication at the government’s request.
      As for John Brennan, she (not they) doesn't mock him for failure, she mocks him for leaking information that the government is now accusing AP of leaking.

      So what exactly is it that we're supposed to be fair about? And what exactly is unfair at the moment?

      •  Umm... (0+ / 0-)

        no, I mean the failure pointed out in the comment I replied to:

        “Oh, hi, AQAP gatekeeper” — their story must imagine the mole saying as he returned to AQAP — “I’ve both failed in my mission and somehow lost the bomb you gave me, but based on that would you be willing to let me spend some quality time with even higher-ranking AQAP operatives?”
        The history of plants and moles, in law enforcement and war, suggests that this is actually quite plausible.  The failure doesn't get put down as "you're a mole" but rather as "ah, you've been stymied".  Especially if the mole is a good bullshitter.  

        Of course, once the operation was blown, and Al-Qaeda knew they had a mole, "you're a mole" alternative suddenly becomes the likely one.  Thus, the mole couldn't go back.

        And as for John Brennan failing upwards, this also from emptywheel:

        You know? John Brennan? The guy who got a big promotion nine months after sloppily exposing a mole? The guy who, as a result, now serves as the original classification authority for some of our nation’s most sensitive secrets?
        I don't know why it's so inconceivable that failing upwards happens in the CIA but not in Al-Qaeda.  The fact that it would be completely expected suggests that emptywheel's suspicions are exaggerated.

        Conservatives need to realize that their Silent Moral Majority is neither silent, nor moral, nor a majority.

        by nominalize on Thu May 23, 2013 at 09:03:54 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  edit: (0+ / 0-)

          once the inside operation's cover was blown, Al-Qaeda knew they had a mole.  It isn't clear that they knew from the bombing's failure.

          Conservatives need to realize that their Silent Moral Majority is neither silent, nor moral, nor a majority.

          by nominalize on Thu May 23, 2013 at 09:05:06 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  You do realize that what she wrote there (3+ / 0-)

          is simply taking the logic put forth by the administration to its logical conclusion?  A supposed suicide bomber, who is supposed to wearing the bomb, is going to be able to say that he was stymied?  Seriously?  The only way to be stymied when one is wearing the bomb is to be detected at security or to be on the plane and try to blow up the bomb and the bomb doesn't work, either of which would have garnered an enormous amount of press.  

          And the operation was not blown by the AP.  By public statements, which many people, including emptywheel, have linked to, the mole was already out of the country and the perpetrator of the Undiebomb plot had been killed before the AP printed its story, as it had held the printing for several days upon request by the administration.  In fact, as emptywheel, among others, has pointed out, John Brennan himself had already publicly claimed that the plot was under control because there was a mole on the inside well before the AP printed its story.

          So if you have evidence to support this comment that you uprated:

          Your "context" doesn't appear to include... (12+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
              flatford39, ericlewis0, ballerina X, Susan from 29, MBNYC, Terrapin, virginislandsguy, second gen, edwardssl, doroma, caul, nominalize

          any mention of the fact that the AP leak destroyed an ongoing multinational covert intel operation that had successfully infiltrated Al-Qaeda.

          That strikes me as germane to the topic.

          it would be great if you presented it, as the original commenter still has not done so.  So far, neither have you.

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