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View Diary: What's Your Definition of "Reality-Based" Thinking? (129 comments)

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  •  It looks as if people are scared to rec (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    quill, 3goldens, MKinTN, GreenPA

    your diary... that's a reality-based truth as well.  I like to say that one has to consider that part of "Reality" is the human tendency to hide their fears and being in denial of realities that they believe threaten their livelihood. And if denial is not enough, they might as well aggressively defend themselves in attacking those who point out their denial.

    May be that makes it a little easier for you to accept human behavorial failures.

    The only difference in what you call the total surveillance status of current times, is that people have always spied heavily on each other to serve the the people in power they felt the need to satisfy.

    It's the technology that has done the changes. Once you can do something, you couldn't do before, it will be done. Doesn't necessarily mean that the people who do what they can are different from those  people in the past that did what they could at their times and technical capabilities.

    •  mimi - why would anyone be afraid to rec (3+ / 0-)

      the diary?

      "let's talk about that"

      by VClib on Thu May 23, 2013 at 01:29:37 PM PDT

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      •  Perhaps Because (6+ / 0-)

        Perhaps because the topic, in my view at least, is divisive and distracting. ("afraid" is certainly the wrong word in any case; "unlikely" or "disinclined" would be better).

        If I'm not mistaken, the concept came from a Bush White House person who told a writer that Liberals live in a reality based mind set, while Conservatives make their own reality.

        We don't really need to go much further than that. Definitions lead to picking away at the concept, and the concept is simple and easily understood as it is. We deal in a world of facts; they deal in a world of fantasy.

        A Southerner in Yankeeland

        To save your life read "Pity The Billionaire" by Thomas Frank, and "Winner-Take-All-Politics" by Jacob S. Hacker and Paul Pierson. Then read more books.

        by A Southerner in Yankeeland on Thu May 23, 2013 at 01:36:59 PM PDT

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    •  Scared? (10+ / 0-)

      People who choose not to rec this diary are scared? I can tell you why I haven't recced it (and scared has nothing to do with it). It's the kind of diary that verges on flame bait. If Ray manages to lead a meaningful and fruitful discussion I may come back and rec it in due course.

      “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

      by Catte Nappe on Thu May 23, 2013 at 01:45:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'd like to see this discussion (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        terrybuck, Catte Nappe, Simplify

        happen, but I don't know that it will here.

        If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

        by AoT on Thu May 23, 2013 at 02:22:21 PM PDT

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      •  Why would you think that the diary verges on (0+ / 0-)

        flame bait?  The question is genuine.  In the diary I'm careful to acknowledge that I'm just another common and fallible person, that learning is a life-long process, that no one can claim to know the absolute "objective" truth, but that we can strive to get close to it on any given subject.

        How is that bait?

        Then I go on to list the conclusions I've reached, and ask people to share their perspectives on those conclusions.

        •  No, Ray, you aren't "asking" people to "share" (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          WakeUpNeo, crose

          You aren't seeking dialogue. You aren't asking with an opening and questioning mind. You are seeking debate, which you intend to "win". You are daring and defying people to change your mind. A mind that is firmly made up and disinterested in what is going on in other's minds beyond the opportunity offered to prove your superior thinking.   That's flame baiting.

          “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

          by Catte Nappe on Thu May 23, 2013 at 05:45:14 PM PDT

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          •  And you're certainly doing your part (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Ray Pensador

            to prevent it from devolving into one, I see.

            You could try responding to the substance of the diary first, and if it indeed turns out you were right about the intent of this diary, it will be readily apparent, won't it?




            Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us.
            ~ Jerry Garcia

            by DeadHead on Thu May 23, 2013 at 06:02:26 PM PDT

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          •  I think your judgement in this "debate" is being (0+ / 0-)

            clouded by a couple of things.  Your deep-seated animosity towards me, personally, and possibly you being intimidated.

            Thus you lash out with accusations and ad hominems.  But that's just a theory.  You can confirm whether I'm right or not.

            Here's the problem (for you).  It is true, when I write a diary like this, there is a huge intellectual effort in my part; there are years and years of thinking, of experience, of debating, of thinking things through.

            I never ever write something I haven't thought about very carefully, and I never go into a debate half-cocked.

            Now, having said that, I'm always prepared to change my conclusions if a strong argument presented in an intellectually honest manner is presented that clearly demonstrate I'm wrong about my conclusions.

            There is nothing about my mind being firmly made up.  I don't work like that.  Your mind should always be learning, evolving, seeking knowledge, learning...

            •  Oooh (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              WakeUpNeo

              Personal animosity, intimidation, lashing out, ad hominems - what a mind reader you are. And I am supposed to "prove you wrong"  by some metric that meets your thoughtfful and superior thinking. Sorry. I entered this discussion in good faith, participated in good faith, yet you are apparently not interested in engaging in good faith. I don't have a problem, other than the error of thinking you were interested in an honest dialogue.  I'll leave this diary, and will know beter next time, as well.

              “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

              by Catte Nappe on Thu May 23, 2013 at 06:49:27 PM PDT

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              •  I always encourage people who don't like my (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                lostinamerica

                diaries not to read them.  Same with me... For example, from what you've written in my diaries, and in the way you have done so, I've determined that I have no interest in reading anything your write, and so I don't.

                I usually read diaries from people I respect and trust.  I do venture into diaries that draw my interest because of their subject line, etc., but once I determine I have no interest in what a particular person writes, i.e., you, you'll never see me visiting their diaries.

                And for sure, you'll never see me visiting a diary and taking pot shots at people.  If I comment, even on something I disagree with, I usually try to be respectful.

                So long.

                •  Mistaken identity? (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  WakeUpNeo
                  For example, from what you've written in my diaries, and in the way you have done so
                  I haven't commented much, nor in many of, your diaries. You've also suggested some personal animosity toward you on my part, and I can't figure out where that conclusion came from either.

                  “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

                  by Catte Nappe on Fri May 24, 2013 at 08:14:13 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

      •  Flame bait? Hardly. (0+ / 0-)

        My idea of a flame bait diary is one that directs rather obvious insults at certain subset of Daily Kos members, usually resulting in 600-1000 long comment sections, or one that doesn't call other members out in the title, but is quick to do so at the start of the diary itself, again, resulting in quite large comment sections.

        In this diary, I saw a good-faith attempt to generate a discussion, not a flame war.




        Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us.
        ~ Jerry Garcia

        by DeadHead on Thu May 23, 2013 at 05:55:06 PM PDT

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    •  In your answer and others I perceive a pattern... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mimi, lostinamerica, northerntier

      I'm not too concerned with what has happened in the past, or with accepting the status quo, or with acquiescing to something just because it is the reality on the ground.

      My only concern when I look at social justice issues is: Is it moral and right, or is it immoral and wrong?

      Do we go to war for the benefit of war profiteers, or only when we have to?

      Do we allow the rapacious greed and predation of the few destroy society and the natural environment, or do we rise in opposition?

      Do we allow the government to detain citizens indefinitely and without trial, or do we exercise our duty as citizens in charge of the government to prevent a few men from claiming that awesome power for themselves?

      If we don't take those issues and questions as our responsibility, then what is the meaning of citizenship?  What is the meaning of a government of the people?

      •  I am with you, my comment was the only one (0+ / 0-)

        I could think of to not give the people who judge you a priori as divisive more wind to sail.

        You know yourself how people react to commentators who try to say that political decisions or social policies are immoral and not right. They try to put you down, declared as naive, as a purist, as self-righteous or arrogant. It's amazing how little opposition to such bullying or mocking down is happening here. Most people just quit the comment threads in such diaries. You get the same old, same old petty arguments over and over.  

        My comment was the only thing I could think of that wouldn't feed your critics something they could use to starts their usual rhetoric.

        Of course it's our responsibility to take all those issues you mention very serious. I do, but I am tired talking about it. I watch people react here to certain diarists. It's telling.

    •  what? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      grover, AoT, WakeUpNeo
      It looks as if people are scared to rec (4+ / 0-)

      your diary... that's a reality-based truth as well.

      it's absolutely not.  you just used "reality-based" and "truth" opposite to their meanings, as a matter of fact.... since you were clearly voicing your opinion.

      come on folks.  are we THIS unclear on the difference between objective and subjective concepts?

      This comment is dedicated to my mellow Adept2U and his Uncle Marcus

      by mallyroyal on Fri May 24, 2013 at 08:59:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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