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View Diary: You are on Indian Land. (131 comments)

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  •  BS! There is no evidence for what you are (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    navajo

    claiming "Polynesians were in the Americas before the ancestors of today's Native Americans."

    No, they weren't. Neither were any denizens of Atlantis nor aliens.

    There is zero, zilch, evidence of Polynesians landing here, say, 8,000-10,000 years ago.

    A case could be made for a very minimal later contact in South America, long (LONG!) after the great civilizations there developed, with a cultural impact no greater than that of temporary camps of vikings far to the NE.

    The Americas greatest political dynasty...the Kaan

    by catilinus on Fri May 24, 2013 at 03:36:45 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  In other words, zero cultural impact. n/t (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      navajo

      The Americas greatest political dynasty...the Kaan

      by catilinus on Fri May 24, 2013 at 03:38:52 AM PDT

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      •  Not quite true - west coastal South America maybe (0+ / 0-)

        The Polynesians seem to have done a bit of trading there - dropped off some chickens and picked up some sweet potatoes.

        http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...

        If it's
        Not your body,
        Then it's
        Not your choice
        And it's
        None of your damn business!

        by TheOtherMaven on Fri May 24, 2013 at 06:30:39 AM PDT

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        •  Yes true. Look at the date in the article. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JayBat, navajo, YucatanMan
          Polynesians beat Columbus to the Americas by probably a century or more, arriving at the latest in the early 1400s.
          1400s?

          How does that support the absurd claim I was responding to-

          Polynesians were in the Americas before the ancestors of today's Native Americans.
          Caral was up & running 5,000 years ago wtih monumental architecture.

          This is Indian land. It was for thousands of year before Europeans or Polynesians came to any part of it. The cultures & civilizations here developed independently for thousands of years. Period.

          In the 1400s other cultures began impacting the Americas. I never thought that was in debate.

          The Americas greatest political dynasty...the Kaan

          by catilinus on Fri May 24, 2013 at 07:07:30 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The sweet potatoes say c 1000 AD (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            catilinus, Dr Swig Mcjigger

            http://arstechnica.com/...

            That's hardly "zero cultural impact" - at least on the Polynesians!

            The more we learn, the more complicated the picture gets.

            If it's
            Not your body,
            Then it's
            Not your choice
            And it's
            None of your damn business!

            by TheOtherMaven on Fri May 24, 2013 at 09:18:44 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Your link supports "0 cultural impact" on the (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Fresno, navajo

              Ancient cultures & civilizations of the Americas, even if you take all their speculation on face value (& I certainly don't, to say the least).

              Archeological remains appear to place sweet potato cultivation in the core of Polynesia by the year 1200
              From there the article just guesses that Polynesians visited America around 1000 AD & borrowed sweet potatoes from Indians.

              There's a long tradition of undermining the accomplishments of the first peoples who lived in the Americas...from claiming them as agents of the Devil, to burning all documention of indigenous history, to the Mormon's claim that Jesus visited & inspired civilizations here, to Ranking's claim the Mongols built the Incan Empire, to claims the Mayans were the lost tribe of Israel, to claims Atlanteans built here, to claims aliens built the civilizations & cultures here, etc, etc.

              A very long tradition indeed of supposedly "unexplainable" mysteries of how Indians domesticated crops, cultivated the landscape to their benefit & created an abundance of wildlife that was scarce in Europe at the time, built pyramids as old as Egypt's (see Caral), built truly ancient civilizations, created diverse forms of writing, & created calendars more accurate than in contemporary Europe.

              All truly "unexplainable" only because so many just refuse to accept the fact that they did it on their own on their own land over many many generations.

              The Americas greatest political dynasty...the Kaan

              by catilinus on Fri May 24, 2013 at 09:56:00 AM PDT

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              •  It's not "speculation" when there is evidence (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Tork

                in the genetics of the sweet potato itself.

                http://phys.org/...

                Mind you, that's in a fairly reputable zine and reports on findings published in a serious scientific journal. It's not like it comes out of some scandal rag.

                As for "undermining", seems to me YOU are "undermining" and underestimating the seamanship of the Polynesians. Those guys put the Vikings to shame, with much more primitive equipment and much wider distances to cover. If they could get somewhere (like the Peruvian/Ecuadoran coast), chances were they did.

                Admittedly they couldn't bring much (chickens?) or take much (the sweet potato, and possibly some ideas in their heads), or keep a trade route going long-term (just too far for routine trading). But it's not to be ignored or dismissed either.

                If it's
                Not your body,
                Then it's
                Not your choice
                And it's
                None of your damn business!

                by TheOtherMaven on Fri May 24, 2013 at 08:01:53 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  The wider point is true (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tork

      rival groups of humans have been displacing each other from territory since long before we were human.

      Touch all that arises with a spirit of compassion

      by Mindful Nature on Fri May 24, 2013 at 07:59:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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