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  •  Um, emptywheel makes no sense (0+ / 0-)

    As John Brennan's case proves, failing upwards happens all the time.  It's human psychology at work, and any reasonable person is aware of that.  "Shit floats," as the saying goes.  Why would failing upwards not happen in Al-Qaeda, too?

    In the history of moles, in espionage, organized crime, and war, it's very normal to come up with a plausible backstory about why the mission failed.  People do that all the time, even when they're not moles--- BS'ing away failure is a normal human trait.

    Emptywheel's glib suppositions are naïve with a veneer of worldliness.   I wouldn't put too much stock into them.  And speaking of failing upwards, I see this epic fail of a post being circulated all over.  Nobody is immune to their own psychology.

    Conservatives need to realize that their Silent Moral Majority is neither silent, nor moral, nor a majority.

    by nominalize on Fri May 24, 2013 at 09:09:12 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Oh, it's you, with the same fact-free (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      deep info, aliasalias, Dallasdoc, 3goldens

      defense.  So I'll just copy and paste what I wrote to you the last time you trotted this out:

      "You do realize that what she wrote there is simply taking the logic put forth by the administration to its logical conclusion?  A supposed suicide bomber, who is supposed to wearing the bomb, is going to be able to say that he was stymied?  Seriously?  The only way to be stymied when one is wearing the bomb is to be detected at security or to be on the plane and try to blow up the bomb and the bomb doesn't work, either of which would have garnered an enormous amount of press.  

      And the operation was not blown by the AP.  By public statements, which many people, including emptywheel, have linked to, the mole was already out of the country and the perpetrator of the Undiebomb plot had been killed before the AP printed its story, as it had held the printing for several days upon request by the administration.  In fact, as emptywheel, among others, has pointed out, John Brennan himself had already publicly claimed that the plot was under control because there was a mole on the inside well before the AP printed its story."

      BTW, do you still want to diss the ACLU?

      •  It's not its logical conclusion, (0+ / 0-)

        unless you have no sense of human psychology.  That's why it's naïve.

        It's well known that even failed suicide bombers are welcomed back for all sorts of reasons (one being the scarcity of volunteers).  If the 9/11 conspirators had failed for whatever reason, they wouldn't have been cut off either.  The assumptions that emptywheel makes despite a lack of basic knowledge is also naïve.

        Also, I didn't diss the ACLU, I dissed your appeal-to-authority fallacy. I don't care if the ACLU is upset about this; I don't always agree with them just because they're the ACLU.  Don't you know it's rude to put things into other people's mouths?  That includes words.  I come here for civil discussion.  If you can't provide that, there are plenty of other kossacks who can.

        Conservatives need to realize that their Silent Moral Majority is neither silent, nor moral, nor a majority.

        by nominalize on Fri May 24, 2013 at 10:27:39 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Sob. (5+ / 0-)

          I trust emptywheel and the ACLU, both of whom have long expertise in this area, before someone like you who civilly uprates fact-free assertions that national security was breached, civilly calls emptywheel naive, and civilly makes fact-free assertions that the ACLU is wrong in this case.

          As for your civil "study" of human psychology, as I noted above, it civilly leaves out the fact that what you describe is impossible.  The only ways for the Undiebomb to have failed is for the Undiebomber to have been caught at airport security or to have tried to detonate the bomb on the plane and the bomb didn't go off, in which case he also would have been detained.  So either way he would have been detained and then brought to trial and there would have been incontrovertible evidence of his actions--hence a conviction.

          And it's also possible that he would have been put into some type of long-term military detention and then tried in front of a military commission.

          In either case, he would have been locked up by us for a looong looong time.  

          So let me then ask you, as civilly as possible: How, then, could he have been "welcomed back?"

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