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View Diary: "I HAVE HAD ENOUGH!" (39 comments)

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  •  You're Half Right: We Need to Fight Hard and With (5+ / 0-)

    emotion, but we don't need to lie.

    The reason we don't need to lie is that most of the people support most of our policies and goals for the condition of the people. The other side needs to lie because most people oppose the goals of the rightwing and the conditions they seek to impose on the people.

    99% of our problem is that we're putting out very little message of any kind, and what we are doing as you rightly observe is often in a very dispassionate way. Especially our party's top leadership.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Sun May 26, 2013 at 10:19:23 AM PDT

    •  I agree with you that we have truth on our side... (0+ / 0-)

      but is that enough?

      I am not a liar and I do not seriously want to start lying but I do not know what else could be effective against these kinds of lies we are facing.

      James O'keefe deceptively edits videos that make people appear guilty of something, gets caught in the lie and yet the media hounds his targets rather than him.  The Republican presidential candidate uses deceptively edited video of President Obama twisting something he said into the opposite meaning and rather than the media crucifying him for it, they made it into their national campaign slogan.

      I get e-mails from people saying that President Obama is buying up all the ammunition in the country in preperation to take everyone's guns. Around here, it is common knowledge that Obama is destroying coal jobs even though I show them the fracking is what is actually dropping the demand for coal, they refuse to believe it.  They have seen hundreds of e-mails saying that Obama is destroying coal so my little comment with some fancy links is not going to change their minds.  It is their livlihood after all.  

      These are the types of things I see daily.  I woke up this morning to several in my in-box and several more on facebook and I just needed to go off and rant a little bit.

      That doesn't change the fact that I do not understand why we allow the conservatives to constantly set the narrative, constantly keep us on our heels and constantly make us spend our time refuting their allegations.  If their is not going to be any repercussions for lying and fighting dirty then we should at least attempt to fight back.  

      I know it is not the high road but I cannot help but want them to have a taste of their own medicine.

      "Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not YET sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favour..."

      by Buckeye Nut Schell on Sun May 26, 2013 at 10:52:55 AM PDT

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      •  asdf (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Buckeye Nut Schell

        If the people you are trying to talk to are going to believe unsourced information that originated from an organization/person that is not accountable for any information that they provide then you are fighting an unwinnable battle and lying to them isn't going to any good anyway.

        As The Marti said earlier in the comment section: (paraphrasing here) if you present the information in a way that not only presents the information in a logical, sourced manor but also personalizes it you should be able to make inroads. If, however, you have weakened your credibility in the past by using misinformation or lying you will find that getting them to believe you will be a much more difficult task.

        You can safely assume you have created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott

        by zooecium on Sun May 26, 2013 at 03:12:08 PM PDT

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        •  I think I may have misrepresented my position... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          I do not want to lie...  I want to fight!

          I was merely stating that they lie and cheat and if you are going to fight liars and cheaters and you are out-resourced by the media and other enablers of this tactic then, we have to think outside the box.

          Fighting fire with fire is the most obvious method but not the only one.  I am just sick of all the propaganda that I see daily and I want to fight back.  

          Why are we still talking about Benghazi?  Why are we still talking about President Obama's birthplace or his religion?  Why do we have to continually explain that the president does not really want to take your guns, he really isn't planning to put all white people into concentration camps and he never went on an apology tour around the world apologizing to Muslims for our country's wicked ways?

          How many times can I say that none of this is true?  How many times can I post links to the rebuttals?  How many times do I have to hear about Fast and Furious?  The new AP scandal, the IRS scandal, Michelle and barack's terrorist fist bump?

          We waste time arguing about these ridiculous things while the Republicans simply reload with another "Worse than Watergate" scandal every three days.  I remember when the Dixie Chicks said they were ashamed george Bush was from Texas, their careers were ruined because they were unamerican.

          This country has real issues.  Climate change is going to kill and or displace millions of people, real people are dying without basic health care in this country, bankers are stealing our money and we are told there is nothing the governent can do about it.  These are real issues.  What do we find ourselves talking about?  Why President Obama should not be impeached for not supplying damaging enough information about Benghazi.

          I am angry.  Do I think we should all of a sudden start lying?  Probably not.  Do I think continuing to do what we have been doing in this area is the right thing to do?  Absolutely not.  I may not know what the right thing to do is but I sure know what it ain't.

          While I appreciate you and The Marti's integrity and admire your persuit of addressing each one of these right wing lies, I do not have faith that it is enough on the larger scope of things.

          I do not know how to fight back on this.  Hopefully this diary, in some small way, stirs the pot a little bit and maybe a better solution will come from it.  Until then, I will keep on keeping on and try to address each one of these when I can. It is just overwhelming and in my eyes, ineffective.  

          "Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not YET sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favour..."

          by Buckeye Nut Schell on Sun May 26, 2013 at 03:43:04 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Keep on keeping on - (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Buckeye Nut Schell

            from the response to this diary you can tell there are others that feel similarly. You might even get the impression that we are mostly doing the same things you are. Because it is all email you dont get to see all of the results of your responses engender.

            Every cause worth fighting for from civil rights to LGBT has had what appeared to be insurmountable obstacles placed in their path and yet -at least on paper- those particular cause have been advanced without using the misinformation/intimidation/tactics of their oppressors.

            rec/tip for the excellent discussion and the clarification on misleading/lying. thanks for a great string!

            You can safely assume you have created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott

            by zooecium on Sun May 26, 2013 at 04:35:55 PM PDT

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