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View Diary: Islam 101: Sawm (157 comments)

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  •  One other thing (10+ / 0-)

    This diary is only stating facts about the Muslim religion that are 100% verifiable as are the customs of many religions. Whether they make sense to members of other religions or atheists is irrelevant unless someone chooses to be a bomb-thrower and make an issue of them.

    If you want to start a comparative religion series to have those discussions, then I have no problems with atheists commenting since it is germane to the topic at hand.

    “And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom” - Anais Nin

    by legendmn on Thu May 30, 2013 at 11:00:27 AM PDT

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    •  I would bet that if you interviewed (0+ / 0-)

      100 Muslims about the practices of their faith that are considered "facts" about it, you'd get about 100 answers. Same with other religions.  It depends on what household or community you were born in, or which country you your born in.  Ayaan Hirsi Ali was a Muslim born in a country where the informational "facts" about Islam would include the practice of female genital mutilation.  Do you think this diarist will present that for the community to consider, or would he say that is NOT a Muslim practice?

      And if he did, would it be fair game for criticism?  

      •  Of course it would (6+ / 0-)

        because then the discussion would be covering women's rights territory, and discussion of genital mutilation would be germane to that topic.

        But what in this diarist's series is controversial to you, other than the manufactured atheist vs. deist controversy which isn't a part of it?

        “And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom” - Anais Nin

        by legendmn on Thu May 30, 2013 at 11:48:50 AM PDT

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    •  I'll bet that if you ask 100 Muslims (0+ / 0-)

      what the factual information is that describes their faith, you'd come up with about 100 different answers. It depends on what home, what community, what country you live in.  Ayaan Hirsi Ali was raised in a Muslim community where female genital mutilation is considered a Muslim practice, backed up by theology and dogma and all that.  Do you think this diarist would present that as "information" about Islam?  And if he did, would that be subject to criticism?

    •  Different Forms of ignorance (0+ / 0-)

      I don't speak for any atheists but myself, but when I hear people discussing the nuances of any religious belief, I see it as a discussion of different forms of ignorance, and it is not worth arguing or delving into any particular point.

      All religious beliefs have been used to one extent or another as a justification for tyranny, brutality, murder, oppression of others and suppression of scientific and historical inquiry.

      There have been many good deeds done by people who call themselves religious, though I believe most of them are just following the convention of their time and place.    Goodness and ethical behavior are generally expressed without referencing a higher power.    

      Widespread brutality and murder, on the other hand, are usually done in the name of some imaginary fairy king.

      Humanity will not be safe until religious devotion is abandoned.  

      Religion gives men the strength to do what should not be done.

      by bobtmn on Thu May 30, 2013 at 05:50:00 PM PDT

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      •  If you don't consider it worth discussing (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        poco, angry marmot, commonmass, SchuyH, JDsg

        then the courteous thing to do is stay out of the discussion, not come in and talk about how worthless you think the discussion is.

      •  Generally I find religion seeks to be moral (0+ / 0-)

        to do what is right and proper, to find what is right and proper and moral in a consensus to be law abiding and by law abiding I mean to accept the norms, mores, conventions, rules, and regulations.

        Its the striving for a means of establishing a higher morality through faith in the greater purity of a dogma associated with a belief that drives atheists nuts when it
        comes down to outlawing and putting under the ban all those who choose not to join the consensus to be law abiding.

        If its important to you whether the threads used to establish the time for prayer are white and black, or white and blue or white and green or how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, to where you want to go to war over it and genocidally massacre everybody who disagrees with you that's not what I would consider a higher morality.

        For that reason I reject the consensus to be law abiding as immoral.

        Religion if it were moral would not be selfish. It would not deny those who take a different position the right to be heard, it would allow women the right to choose, it would not hate or oppose or force anything or anyone.

        In particular it would not be bothered if someone chooses to tease it about all the parts of its dogma where this does not compute...

        Live Free or Die --- Investigate, Incarcerate

        by rktect on Thu Jun 06, 2013 at 04:21:35 AM PDT

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