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View Diary: WATCH: The "Obama Pipeline"? (168 comments)

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  •  The public doesn't understand what is being built. (15+ / 0-)

    They've been pounded with misinformation about KXL.
    Apart from the obvious ongoing environmental disaster that KXL represents, the public is being deceived into believing that KXL will help reduce fuel prices. The opposite is true. In order for the tar sands operations to be profitable the price of oil needs to go UP. And stay UP.
    File under: if we had a Fourth Estate.

    -4.38, -7.64 Voyager 1: proof that what goes up never comes down.

    by pat bunny on Thu May 30, 2013 at 10:57:34 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  The public understands that there is energy in the (7+ / 0-)

      ...ground and they don't intend to leave it there.

      I do not believe that Keystone XL should be completed, but my indignation doesn't entitle me to deny the reality of the situation and that is the damn thing enjoys majority support even within the Democratic Party.

      I see Keystone XL has a battle in a larger war and we've lost the public on it. Blaming the media, or the polling, or whatever/whoever isn't going to fix that. What we can do is take a long hard look and reassess how we have been approaching this urgent issue.

      The politicians may be bought, and the system corrupt, but it is our duty to fix these things.

      by sebastianguy99 on Thu May 30, 2013 at 11:16:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  one thing we should look at is people giving up (10+ / 0-)

        like you seem to be, if you are against it, before a decision has been made.

        You even seem to be encouraging other people to give up when no decision has been made.

        The whole movement is grassroots, and growing, and yet you seem ready to start a post-morteme. Why?

        Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell. --Edward Abbey

        by greenbastard on Thu May 30, 2013 at 11:20:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  So my call to reevaluate our approach is giving up (4+ / 0-)

          Wow. Ok. I mean, it begs the question of why reevaluate if you are intent on quitting, but ok.

          Keystone is but one battle in a long war with the fate of the planet hanging in the balance. I really have no patience for indulging b.s. as we need to start winning more battles.

          We simply cannot continue in a mode where we do not have the public with us and then expect whoever is in office to go against the public. It isn't going to work. If you truly believe in a grassroots approach, then you should expect that change comes from the bottom-up, not from decrees in the Oval Office.

          If you believe our approach has been effective, then we will have to disagree. The only thing I am giving up on is those who want to continue to find excuses rather than find a way to fight better.

          The politicians may be bought, and the system corrupt, but it is our duty to fix these things.

          by sebastianguy99 on Thu May 30, 2013 at 11:35:38 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I see a growing movement against Obama's Tar Sand (8+ / 0-)

            pipeline.

            I look forward to you joining and offering ideas on better communication with diaries, recs and tips.

            I'm sure you'll be recommending this diary any minute now, as such a strong supporter;

            Recommended by:
            Zorge, jazzence, Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse, FutureNow, James Wells, Mary Mike, Polly Syllabic, Burned, confitesprit, Bill in Portland Maine, John Crapper, chrississippi, Glen The Plumber, gooderservice, aoeu, Agathena, remembrance, SolarMom, maggiejean, cosmic debris, Meteor Blades, Gooserock, LaughingPlanet, Lowgun, boriskamite, pat bunny, trykindness, One Pissed Off Liberal, cardboardurinal, Oaktown Girl, kimoconnor, JekyllnHyde, greenbastard, Torta, Albanius, Sybil Liberty, joanbrooker, MKinTN, MrJayTee, citisven, No Exit, terrybuck, Ashaman, 2laneIA, joedemocrat, SneakySnu, MrSandman, kevinpdx, SaintC, raina, Progressive Pen, Lady Libertine, zmom, wasatch, Skennet Boch, navajo, Mogolori, maybeeso in michigan, Red Bean, anodnhajo, CitizenOfEarth, Lily O Lady, zerelda, gulfgal98, Sara R, Shahryar, thomask, 3goldens, doroma, DRo, Panacea Paola, HappyinNM, OLinda, wayoutinthestix, Dave925, asterkitty, tarheelblue

            Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell. --Edward Abbey

            by greenbastard on Thu May 30, 2013 at 11:42:13 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Calling it "Obama Tar Sand Pipeline" doesn't help (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Deep Texan, Gator Keyfitz, Onomastic

              It gets you lots of love from his fellow haters, but it does not help us change much.

              No, I will not recommend a diary I feel is wrong even if I admire the diarist and think he got a raw deal in D.C.

              Making this into another rox/sux thing is a giant waste of time and emblematic of the ability of people to lose focus.

              We need to change our approach to bring the public along with us. If we don't, then there will be more Keystone XL's to come with the same result no matter who happens to be POTUS at the time. So I'm asking question ow because I have no intentions of repeating the same losing battle and then commiserating about my victimhood here at DK.

              This is a fight for the planet and we do not have time to indulge losing strategies. If you have a better strategy than bringing along the public with a message of jobs, security and quality of life instead of doom, then let's hear it. If not, spare the righteous indignation because it isn't working.

              The politicians may be bought, and the system corrupt, but it is our duty to fix these things.

              by sebastianguy99 on Thu May 30, 2013 at 11:54:41 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Obama's Tar Sands Pipeline doesn't help your cause (6+ / 0-)

                neither does calling me a hater. I recommend you not attack me, and while you may not agree with the approach of this diary, keeping the issue visible is, so I recommend you recommending this diary.

                Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell. --Edward Abbey

                by greenbastard on Thu May 30, 2013 at 12:13:30 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  And still no comment about changing strategies. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Deep Texan

                  That is what interests me. Everything else is self-importance.  

                  I will not rec a diary that I find to be counterproductive to the cause. Van can do better than appeals only to a narrow segment of the population.

                  The politicians may be bought, and the system corrupt, but it is our duty to fix these things.

                  by sebastianguy99 on Thu May 30, 2013 at 12:21:10 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  You have to advance a new strategy for me to (6+ / 0-)

                    comment on it.

                    I think the rebranding Jones starts in the diary is another good strategy. So is the video. Both are about communication, informing and reaching people.

                    Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell. --Edward Abbey

                    by greenbastard on Thu May 30, 2013 at 12:24:33 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Ok, so you really are about being obtuse. (0+ / 0-)

                      You got me, I thought for a moment there you really did want to dialouge about something.

                      I have been quite clear in how I believe we should change and what our approach should be. If you want to pretend that I haven't done so up and down this thread, then that is on you.

                      The politicians may be bought, and the system corrupt, but it is our duty to fix these things.

                      by sebastianguy99 on Thu May 30, 2013 at 01:40:44 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  No reason to start calling me things (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        expatjourno

                        just tell me your new strategy. Sincerely, I'm open and willing to help you advance it. I feel passionately about this. I think there is room for many strategies.

                        Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell. --Edward Abbey

                        by greenbastard on Thu May 30, 2013 at 01:57:42 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  Van Jones's strategy: (5+ / 0-)

                        Founded Green for All in 2007.

                        Green Collar Economy, published in 2008.

                        Appointed in 2009 to be Obama's Special Advisor for Green Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation. (We know what happened to that.)

                        Remind me of who is in that post now.

                        Like Van Jones, most of us who oppose Keystone XL can do more than one thing at a time. We have to fight this battle on many fronts. Some of us have been talking about green jobs for a long time.

                        I started doing it when Denis Hayes hired me to work at the Solar Energy Research Institute in 1978. (It's now the National Renewable Energy Lab.)

                        Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

                        by Meteor Blades on Thu May 30, 2013 at 08:59:11 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  ...and still Keystone will be built. (0+ / 0-)

                          That's the bottom line. Despite all of our efforts it will be built. We either learn from this or we will lose again.

                          I believe we need to not just talk about, but lead with, jobs,energy independence, and quality of life. Those all rate higher with the public than concern for the environment. Foretelling the end of the planet is sadly not working as it should.

                          If people do not take responsibility for our collective failure then that suggests to me they really do not understand the nature of the problem.

                          The politicians may be bought, and the system corrupt, but it is our duty to fix these things.

                          by sebastianguy99 on Fri May 31, 2013 at 03:56:24 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

      •  Obama stands up to the majority whenever... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        snoopydawg

        ...it is in the interests of the people who will fund his billionaire post-presidential life.

        Obama is the Chickenshit-in-Chief for failing to stand up to Republicans on all their phony scandals, from the "beer summit," to Van Jones, "death panels," Shirley Sherrod, contraception, Benghazi, and the IRS.

        by expatjourno on Thu May 30, 2013 at 03:23:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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