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View Diary: IMF admits disaster in Austerity orders (85 comments)

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  •  according to Eurostat (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    elwior

    http://en.wikipedia.org/...

    Greek Tax revenues as GDP is 30% which makes them pretty low in comparison to their neighbors.  
    Germany is 40%,  Denmark is 50.

      •  So many of the media reports are poorly (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        elwior

        sourced and anecdotal. People like Michael Lewis do a flyby in Greece, one week, and then come back and paint with a broad brush.

        If you want the most definitive study on Greek taxation, it's this one here:

        http://www2.lse.ac.uk/...

        The wealthiest 14% are responsible for Greek tax evasion.

        When you take into account the fact that 15% of Greek GDP is in tourism, and another 15% is in shipping (which is totally untaxed except for tonnage weight of ships), the tax revenue to GDP collection in Greece is quite high. Back out 15% of GDP, and suddenly you're at 50% tax to taxable GDP. Of course, to make a comparison, you'd have to back out tax free sectors in other countries, but they are rare.

        There are two kinds of people in this world. The kind who divide the world into two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

        by upstate NY on Thu Jun 06, 2013 at 03:47:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  why is tourism tax free? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          elwior

          it's usually a great source of cash.

          as for shipping, well, they should pick up some chunk of it.

          •  I didn't remove tourism from GDP (0+ / 0-)

            Only shipping in that calculation. But as you point out, tourism is frequently a cash enterprise. And that cash gets stashed.

            Shipping is international business, the ships are on the high seas. They can dock anywhere. The Gov't is thankful enough that they pay tonnage tax, because those ships could fly under any other flag. The point is, Greece's GDP for taxation purposes is larger than it really is.

            There are two kinds of people in this world. The kind who divide the world into two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

            by upstate NY on Thu Jun 06, 2013 at 07:19:13 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  tighten up flag regs in the EU (0+ / 0-)

              you can't dock at a EU port unless you are flagged to the EU or paying cargo sales taxes.  

              •  So, what happens to int'l trade (0+ / 0-)

                when ships from China try to dock in the EU?

                Cargo tax is paid already, but that only applies to what's being imported. So, this isn't an issue of tax. It's an issue of corporate profits.

                There are two kinds of people in this world. The kind who divide the world into two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

                by upstate NY on Fri Jun 07, 2013 at 09:03:29 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  have a reciprocal tax (0+ / 0-)

                  if it's a chinese flagged ship, tax it for the voyage
                  like it's a EU ship and have the tax tied to wage
                  credits and safety standards and percentage tonnage
                  aimed for EU ports.

                  credit the chinese Govt for any taxes collected on EU
                  ships pulling in to Chinese ports....

                  somewhat the way US States tax diesel fuel burned
                  within a state even if purchased out of state.

                  •  The Chinese though are there to kill (0+ / 0-)

                    the Greek shipping industry. The Chinese are actually already taking over. Pretty soon, this whole discussion is going to be moot because little by little, the world's biggest fleet of dry good ships (i.e. excluding oil and gas) is being whittled away and the Chinese are taking over.

                    There are two kinds of people in this world. The kind who divide the world into two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

                    by upstate NY on Sun Jun 09, 2013 at 05:49:56 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

    •  Don't believe Wiki (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      elwior

      Look at Eurostat: http://appsso.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/...

      You'll total government revenue as % of GDP there.

      I've found that so much of the Greek story is bogus and concocted, including the Goldman Sachs currency swap story that had Greece hiding debt. They are all concocted for a reason, to create distractions, and to absolve the banks from any blame.

      There are two kinds of people in this world. The kind who divide the world into two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

      by upstate NY on Thu Jun 06, 2013 at 03:40:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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