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View Diary: POTUS and Rep. Pelosi Announce Plans to Win Back the House (317 comments)

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  •  "Don't send me anything over a trillion" (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ericlewis0, JoanMar, NedSparks, aitchdee

    So said Speaker Pelosi.

    And lost in all the whining over the stimulus in 2009, is that fact that the initial estimates of GDP contraction were off by threefold.

    Step 1: Someone writes a highly misleading diary with a selective use of facts. Step 2: Someone else writes a highly misleading diary to counter the first diary with a selective use of facts. Step 3: Someone says Obama is worse than Hitler. Repeat.

    by NoFortunateSon on Fri Jun 07, 2013 at 08:29:30 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  3 fold, citation? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      .................expect us......................... FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

      by Roger Fox on Fri Jun 07, 2013 at 08:57:34 PM PDT

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      •  1.8 trillion would have been enough. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Roger Fox

        According to Romer's estimate.

        The correct thing to do was to request 3 trillion and to say "I cannot be responsible for what will happen if you do not pass this".

        •  Krugman says 2 trillion might not have been enough (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Onomastic, aitchdee, JoanMar

          Nobody really knows what would have been "enough", and nobody has really defined what "enough" means.

          For the sake of argument, let's say that "enough" means getting down to 4.5% unemployment within 4 years.  Krugman has stated that even if we had gotten a two trillion dollar stimulus, it still might not have been enough.  He said that he thinks that it would have knocked 0.5 percentage points off the unemployment rate, but he can't guarantee that it would have done much more than that, let alone a 100% recovery in a reasonably short time period (as I said, I'm using 4 years as the time period).

          FDR's New Deal definitely wasn't enough to end the Great Depression in 4 years, or even get unemployment down to single digits (didn't even come close).  The New Deal only got unemployment to come down to 14% (and many of the jobs were make work at barely livable wages), then FDR embraced FULL austerity (not just decreasing payments of a particular program in the long term, but full, honest-to-goodness David Cameron style austerity, (mis)designed to boost the economy in the short term through massive short term cuts) which led to the Roosevelt Recession in 1937/38, which was the greatest economic slowdown in history (including the slowdown during Hoover's time that started the Great Depression).  Why do I bring this up?  Just to point out that often the programs put in place are "not enough" and that not even FDR was perfect at the stimulus game.

          •  That's why it's important to have a political club (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Roger Fox

            to hit the opposition with -- an "I told you what would work and you refused to do it" club.

          •  9.1% unemployment in 1937, not 14.3% (0+ / 0-)

            You might want to count the CCC & WPA jobs, which 14.3% doesnt.

            Stanley Lebergott unemployment numbers never counted CCC & WPA jobs.

            Smiley, Gene, "Recent Unemployment Rate Estimates for the 1920s and 1930s", Journal of Economic History, June 1983, 43, 487–93.

            .................expect us......................... FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

            by Roger Fox on Sat Jun 08, 2013 at 11:41:36 AM PDT

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        •  Even Dean Bakers 1.2 trillion (0+ / 0-)

          each year for 4-7 years, would have done wonders compared to what we have now.

          .................expect us......................... FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

          by Roger Fox on Sat Jun 08, 2013 at 11:43:32 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Some of them claimed that the economy would have (7+ / 0-)

      gone into a Second Great Depression because Obama
      didn't  get a bigger stimulus, but they have been proven wrong.

      Some of them predicted that healthcare reform would fail as well, and they are being proven wrong on that front too....

      Some of the eternal Obama critics here have been proven wrong on so many fronts it's not even funny.

      I remember when the BP oil spill happened, some of these individuals spent days upon days attacking the President for not doing enough.... Doing whatever they could to sink this man.... I don’t hear much talk about the “Obama catastrophe” BP oil spill these days.

      Gee, if we had to go back and think about all the things that have been said about this President from some in this community, if we didn’t know better, we would wonder how did Barack Obama win reelection?

      Do you remember the screams and attacks on this President over the first debate against Willard Romney? People who didn't even want him to win, attacking him for what they claim is his letting down the Democratic Party by losing the first debate? Some accused him of not knowing how to fight, and even "inarticulate"?

      Guess what? The President won the election....

      Yup…Wrong Again!

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