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View Diary: Bill Maher DESTROYS the myth of Reagan (video + full transcript) (127 comments)

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  •  that's because Maher uses his brain to think (8+ / 0-)

    unlike those on the left who use their brains to repeat the latest outrage from the liberal talking heads that they worship

    it isn't just the right who has their idols

    •  Glenn Greenwald is the left's Glenn Beck (8+ / 0-)

      Nothing more tragic than watching some liberals follow the Greenwald Cult down another road that brings them so far "left" they end up on the right.

      Watching Greenwald demand we attack Obama with the same fervor is Bush offers the delusional anti-intellectual hive mind cult leader B.S. that Beck/O'Reilly/Savage/Hannity have spoon fed to their minions for decades.  It's awful to watch.  

      None of that excuses Obama's NSA operation.  But we've known about this since 2007.  Suddenly Greenwald breaks a story, and everyone acts like Obama's doing something we didn't know about.  

      Uhm, right or wrong, Obama's been pretty upfront about data mining from the start.  

      But the left is producing its own cult members.  Like the purity-tests of Dennis Kucinich (now a Fox News pundit), Greenwald offers the same tripe.  Just one more step to join up with the LaRouche Cult.  

      Seriously, how soon until Greenwald is contributing as a talking head on Fox News?

      •  Right or wrong? (9+ / 0-)

        I choose wrong. Wrong in 2007, wrong now. What exactly is the difference? Now that Glen Greenwald wrote something about it, it's not okay to attack this monstrous abuse of power?

        Even if all those liberal boogeymen never existed; it's still wrong. How you can breeze past this on your way to scoring a few cheap shots at a lefty blowhard and your fellow kossacks is beyond me.

        The problem with going with your gut as opposed to your head is that the former is so often full of shit. - Randy Chestnut

        by lotusmaglite on Sat Jun 08, 2013 at 12:52:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  what is wrong about it? (0+ / 0-)

          maybe i just live to close to Canada to see what the big deal is about this whole thing.  personally, i think Americans are just too paranoid about their own government.  whether it's the left and this or the right and Obamacare.  

          •  Okay, you got me. (8+ / 0-)

            I'm flabbergasted. If this surveillance shit doesn't viscerally affect you, I'm not sure how to explain it. You know what it is, and if you're fine with that, no amount of "explaining" is going to fix it.

            My apologies for assuming otherwise.

            The problem with going with your gut as opposed to your head is that the former is so often full of shit. - Randy Chestnut

            by lotusmaglite on Sat Jun 08, 2013 at 12:58:47 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  people dying viserally affects me (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              leftykook, 1BQ, arabian, bluebottles

              if i was worried about what the government thinks of what i say i wouldn't be writing this comment on dkos

              •  It does not follow (6+ / 0-)

                ...that if we don't allow the government to snoop into our daily lives, then people will die.

                There are more than two choices, here.

                The problem with going with your gut as opposed to your head is that the former is so often full of shit. - Randy Chestnut

                by lotusmaglite on Sat Jun 08, 2013 at 01:26:57 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  a couple of things to read and digest before... (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Meteor Blades, Nada Lemming, chmood

                pooh poohing the folks concerned about this whole surveillance thing:

                Why Privacy Matters

                a key portion of it:

                Privacy is often threatened not by a single egregious act but by the slow accretion of a series of relatively minor acts. In this respect, privacy problems resemble certain environmental harms, which occur over time through a series of small acts by different actors. Although society is more likely to respond to a major oil spill, gradual pollution by a multitude of actors often creates worse problems.

                Privacy is rarely lost in one fell swoop. It is usually eroded over time, little bits dissolving almost imperceptibly until we finally begin to notice how much is gone. When the government starts monitoring the phone numbers people call, many may shrug their shoulders and say, "Ah, it's just numbers, that's all." Then the government might start monitoring some phone calls. "It's just a few phone calls, nothing more." The government might install more video cameras in public places. "So what? Some more cameras watching in a few more places. No big deal." The increase in cameras might lead to a more elaborate network of video surveillance. Satellite surveillance might be added to help track people's movements. The government might start analyzing people's bank rec­ords. "It's just my deposits and some of the bills I pay—no problem." The government may then start combing through credit-card records, then expand to Internet-service providers' records, health records, employment records, and more. Each step may seem incremental, but after a while, the government will be watching and knowing everything about us.

                "My life's an open book," people might say. "I've got nothing to hide." But now the government has large dossiers of everyone's activities, interests, reading habits, finances, and health. What if the government leaks the information to the public? What if the government mistakenly determines that based on your pattern of activities, you're likely to engage in a criminal act? What if it denies you the right to fly? What if the government thinks your financial transactions look odd—even if you've done nothing wrong—and freezes your accounts? What if the government doesn't protect your information with adequate security, and an identity thief obtains it and uses it to defraud you? Even if you have nothing to hide, the government can cause you a lot of harm.

                "But the government doesn't want to hurt me," some might argue. In many cases, that's true, but the government can also harm people inadvertently, due to errors or carelessness.

                and also check out MB's diary tonight:

                Nothing to see here. Move along.

                also, history is littered with governments behaving badly with programs like this. thinking that the US Gov't will always and forever be good and kind and benevolent is really really wishful thinking...

                The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those that speak it. ~George Orwell

                by poligirl on Sat Jun 08, 2013 at 08:08:25 PM PDT

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                •  Or ever was (4+ / 0-)

                  One example: Elliot Spitzer.  How was his infidelity identified?  The treasury department rifling around in his bank accounts.  Their reason:  The do this all the time to protect against blackmail.  The bullshit:  They killed his career, but I haven't seen anyone else exposed under this program, and I guarantee he cant be the only one that had a problem.
                  This much information on everyone has nothing to do with terrorism and everything to do with control.

                  These capitalists generally act harmoniously and in concert to fleece the people, and now that they have got into a quarrel with themselves, we are called upon to appropriate the people's money to settle the quarrel. Abraham Lincoln

                  by Nailbanger on Sat Jun 08, 2013 at 10:34:18 PM PDT

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              •  Maybe we should take a cue from Israel (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                Citizens there live with the almost daily reality of terrorist attacks. Yet they don't wet their pants and hide under their beds whining for their government to "keep them safe" with ever more fascistic control.

                Ten times as many Americans die in traffic accidents every year as were killed on 9/11, yet nobody is up in arms over that. What would the reaction be if the government announced they were going to surveil your driving habits? We could save many more lives that way than with all the "Homeland Security" intrusions.

                What is valued is practiced. What is not valued is not practiced. -- Plato

                by RobLewis on Sun Jun 09, 2013 at 07:07:28 AM PDT

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        •  I'm saying the debate already exists (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Matt Z, arabian

          So WTF is Glenn "revealing"?  What did you learn that you didn't already know?

          It's just more excuse for so-called "leftist" purity trolls to attack the President to prove they're not "tribalist" or whatever language Greenwald uses to act above the fray.  

          Meanwhile, Obama's on the verge of getting immigration reform and fillibuster reform through.  

          Sorry, but these are far more important to me right now.

          The debate about the Patriot Act was eleven years go.  I opposed it.  But the vast majority of America supported it.

          In 2007, the FISA lawbreaking was revealed.  No one cared.

          You can get angry at Obama all you want but those are the facts.  The real question is where do we go from here.

          •  No one cared? (10+ / 0-)

            That lets me know you're full of shit right there. Some of us have been pushing back against this bullshit since Bush and that didn't stop just because the guy in the White House has a "D" after his name.

            Have you ever even heard of this group?


            They're the people who didn't just say "oh well" after you think the debate about the Patriot Act was over. You know, the people who are still fighting for our Constitutional rights. For your rights, even if you don't care about them, a lot of us never stopped.

            Uhmmm right or wrong Obama's been pretty up front about what? Restoring the rule of law? or coming clean when this shit hits the press? I don't believe he's been either. But do go on with your bad self, tell us all how ignorant we are to still give a shit while your hero is doing so many other "important" things.

            I shave my legs with Occam's razor...BOWP~

            by triv33 on Sat Jun 08, 2013 at 06:58:04 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I'm on your side doofus (0+ / 1-)
              Recommended by:
              Hidden by:

              The majority of Americans viewed giving up some basic liberty in terms of phone calls and privacy in the interests of the "war on terror."

              I agree with you.  I thought it was bullshit.

              But again I ask you, what did the Holy Greenwald reveal that is so new and worth getting hysterical about?  What didn't you already know?

              •  Apologize for name calling, and I'll remove my HR. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
              •  There's something you learn when you've (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                triv33, poligirl, Nada Lemming

                really seen the underside of capitalism, from the ground looking up.

                How to tell who's on your side.

                You aren't.

                What Greenwald revealed is that they're actively tracking all of us.  Not some limited but large number, based on some criteria that may be excessively arbitrary.

                Every.  Fucking.  One. Of. Us.

                We're all fucking suspects now.  That's what we just found out.

                Our Government locks men in cages and has them isolated, raped, beaten, and terrorized for decades because they have grown medicine. Only a complete fucking idiot would not fear it.

                by JesseCW on Sun Jun 09, 2013 at 05:22:26 PM PDT

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          •  Here's a question for you (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            triv33, poligirl, Dallasdoc, JesseCW

            Have you ever had hard evidence of FISA court documents? Crawl back in your hole ignore what is going on around you that has always worked well for citizens of countries violating their rights with impunity.

            There are no sacred cows.

            by LaEscapee on Sat Jun 08, 2013 at 07:06:04 PM PDT

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            •  OMG (0+ / 0-)

              We have "Hard evidence" of what Bush and Obama have admitted they've been doing for years.  Well I guess that means something something.

              I'd prefer better oversight.  But do I care about data mining of phone records enough to watch the left implode over nonsense at the risk of major advances on important issues like immigration reform?

              Sorry, bub.

              I already watched clowns like you tear down Al Gore for being the same as Bush and voting for Ralph Nader.  How'd that work out again?  I keep forgetting.

              Oh, but Glenn Greenwald might call me a "tribalist" for excusing Obama for not doing everything 100% the way I'd like it.

              Sorry.  This is the real world.  Data mining is B.S. I hate it.  I opposed the Patriot Act.  I support politicians who oppose the Patriot Act.

              But the reality is Obama still has the chance to do some major good in his second term, and freaking out over something I've known since 2007 is not going to get us anywhere.

          •  oh so many things... (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            triv33, Dallasdoc, JesseCW

            ummm, i thought Obama couldn't do stuff like this:

            Meanwhile, Obama's on the verge of getting immigration reform and fillibuster reform through.

            cuz we've all been told time and time and time and time again that he can't do that - that's Congress. of course, we only hear that when it's on an issue that's important to a lot of the actual left and only when it's something that Obama doesn't want to seem to do, so he and his defenders want to take any blame off of him.

            we've even heard that this very week regarding the spying on all Americans that his NSA has been doing. "it was Congress's fault! he was just using the tools they gave him! leave Obama alone!"

            you can't have it both ways.


            Sorry, but these are far more important to me right now.
            who gives a crap at what YOU personally want right now. just because YOU think those issues are the most important issues does not make it so. it just makes you a man with an opinion, and well, you know what they say about opinions....

            so you didn't like the PATRIOT Act  when it was originally passed, but since it did pass then, it was a done deal and wasn't worthy of protesting anymore? not even on its renewal? or how about the FISA vote?  fcol, with friends like you... geez... wouldn't want to share a foxhole with ya...

            you should change your user name; you're certainly doing the character injustice. Orwell would be ashamed. you sir are not even close to Winston Smith.

            now you - you go run along and be a good German now while the rest of us digest the smoking gun, what the proof of it means, and what possible options we have to fight against this blatant disregard of our Constitutionally guaranteed rights....

            The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those that speak it. ~George Orwell

            by poligirl on Sat Jun 08, 2013 at 07:27:30 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  See the thing is (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              poligirl, triv33, JesseCW

              If Greenwald broke the story, we're like Beck fans.  The story itself doesn't matter because Leftbaggerz!  

              Makes perfect sense if all you do is appeals to authority.  Honestly, these folks would have flunked debate class.  It's not worth your time.  

              Bad things aren't bad! And anyway, there's mitigation!

              by Nada Lemming on Sat Jun 08, 2013 at 09:58:27 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  the story is there is no story (0+ / 0-)

                I hate to break it to the Greenwald Cult, but there's no there there.  

                It's all been known for years.  

                But don't let that stop the purity trolling.  

                •  Bingo! (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  poligirl, JesseCW

                  You've now hit all of the words on my apologist bingo card.  Thanks.  You can now go back to the Spew and high five all your buddies who hate the left more than they hate Limbaugh.  

                  Bad things aren't bad! And anyway, there's mitigation!

                  by Nada Lemming on Sun Jun 09, 2013 at 11:29:25 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Again I ask... (0+ / 0-)

                    What new piece of information did you learn about the NSA that we didn't know when the story broke in 2007?

                    But get hysterical if you'd like.  It's about as logical as Issa on Benghazi.  

                    •  Read the documents (0+ / 0-)

                      At the very least, James Clapper has committed perjury within the last week.  It's not up to me to read the documents to you, even if greenwald has lefty cooties.  Sometimes you need to ignore the messenger to consume the message.  If you choose not you, we are arguing without the same knowledge.  

                      Bad things aren't bad! And anyway, there's mitigation!

                      by Nada Lemming on Sun Jun 09, 2013 at 08:38:15 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                •  If you "knew" it (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Nada Lemming

                  why didn't you leak it with supporting evidence? All we had were he said she said now we have hard evidence that has made not only the agencies involved but the president admit they have been spying on American citizens. There is the sand stick your head back in it if you want but don't attempt to dissuade those that actually give a fuck.

                  There are no sacred cows.

                  by LaEscapee on Sun Jun 09, 2013 at 07:47:37 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

    •  I <3 Bill Maher, but I can't agree with him on (5+ / 0-)

      everything, and this pass he gives the Obama Administration (or any other, I guess) on warrantless spying on the entire American population?

      I call #bullshit on that.

      Just as Ben Franklin would -

      “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety”

      -- from a 1755 letter Franklin wrote to the Pennsylvania colonial governor during the French and Indian War.

      "I like paying taxes...with them, I buy Civilization"

      by Angie in WA State on Sat Jun 08, 2013 at 12:26:09 PM PDT

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    •  I agree - Maher does use his brain (6+ / 0-)

      I agree - Maher thinks for himself and has shown he is perfectly capable of using his brain.

      But I do not agree that the government should be collecting phone and internet usage information on all Americans.

      A more effective way to prevent people from attacking us with planes or nukes is to stop wantonly killing foreigners and invading their countries to get their natural resources.

      "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

      by Hugh Jim Bissell on Sat Jun 08, 2013 at 12:50:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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