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View Diary: The Chinese Dilemma (29 comments)

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  •  Not getting much traction on this diary. (4+ / 0-)

    This excellent diary deserves better but many people seem willing to let President Obama sell America to the highest bidder because he's "our guy".

    As a person with 40 years in the tech industry, I have seen the ravages of outsourcing and imported H-1B visas. What used to be a well-paid professional career path has been turned into just another path in the race to the bottom.

    It sickens me. Sadly, though, I seem to be in a small minority.

    A waist is a terrible thing to mind.

    by edg on Sat Jun 08, 2013 at 08:08:07 PM PDT

    •  Yes, amazingly, Democrats (3+ / 0-)

      appear to now be in the same camp as Grover Norquist.

      Democrats used to care about jobs for Americans. That's what unions were all about. Unions are EXCLUSIONIST - union members were eligible, and others were not. That is what union power comes from - keeping the jobs for union members.

      But today, the Democratic Party is the pro-scab party. They want jobs not for Americans, but for immigrants. The democratic party has made a very clear choice - the illegals get jobs in construction, field work, and other areas, and American workers do not.

      The simple statement is that "these are jobs Americans do not want to do". Of course, this is a vicious anti-American statement of hatred toward our own children. There are no jobs Americans will not do. What is REALLY going on is that "There are jobs Americans will not do at specific wages".

      The H-1B onslaught is devastating to America. We lose intellectual capital. We bring in our enemies to run the critical jobs at the heart of our country, and they steal our knowledge and take it home. We are betraying our own children, and forcing them to take crap jobs while reserving the good jobs for the foreign illegals, on the bottom end and the top end of the labor spectrum. We are burdening our children with huge debt to go to college and then giving the good jobs to foreign scabs.

      Why do Democrats allow this?

      The answer is simple - the Democratic Party is now the Party of the Illegals, and not the Party of the Working American.

      It's fucking stupid.

      We are paying a huge price for it, too. We are losing the industrial midwest. IL, MI, WI, OH, PA - these states are "blue" for the minute, but only statewide. Within each state, the rural parts are red, and cities are blue. That's because the white working class knows that the Democratic Party doesn't give a fuck about them. They know that the Democrats care ONLY about the illegals. The Democrats don't care if students get jobs, they don't care about skilled trades, just illegals.

      •  they'll get it when there's a tech version of (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Pearl harbor. But amurica's vast store of guns will be no match for the new enemy.

        •  Read the headlines (0+ / 0-)

          The Chinese are infiltrating our tech.

          I suppose what you mean is when some chinese hacker uses his US-Trained skills to shut down a nuclear reactor.

          •  Paranoid idiocy (2+ / 0-)
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            randomfacts, FG

            The idea, not the posters, of course.

            America seems unable to contemplate China without either over- or under-estimating it.

            How do you know these Chinese hackers were where they thought they were, and not in a dummy site?

            If I were the Chinese military, I'd be taking any information gained through such uncontrollable and uncheckable sources with a few tons of salt.

            And the very idea that some Chinese hacker might "shut down a nuclear reactor" -- what permanant damage would that do, other than revealing the existence of the hack? Do you seriously think they can make the reactors explode? Sheesh. Must be the first and the last time I've ever seen anyone here treat shutting down a reactor as a bad thing.

            "They smash your face in, and say you were always ugly." (Solzhenitsyn)

            by sagesource on Sun Jun 09, 2013 at 07:40:10 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  No. Check out Silicon Valley. (1+ / 0-)
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             About half of the newer major companies have been founded by Indian and Chinese and other Asian immigrants, and large amounts of investment is arriving from China.  
                They also fill about half of the grad classes at Berkeley.
               Many of the jobs developed here with US basic technology are brought to market and then shipped back to China or India and the rest of Asia for production.  
               It's not like we are GIVING it all away, because they are certainly working very hard and investing in order to establish it all, but we certainly are missing the boat ourselves in not having any real policy for our own economic expansion.  
               The new immigration law will allow about a million new H1B visas (150.000 or so per each year for over 6 years)
            and guess which jobs they are coming for!
                Hillary Clinton used to be known as Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-Mumbai.
                Our local reps seem to believe that they have an obligation to open all the gates for the Business sector (after all that 's who donates money for their political campaigns) and they forget the 'little people' that live here and can't find work, nor get an education.

            •  tell you what else (0+ / 0-)

              I bought a dozen lithium batteries through the mail off ebay direct from the chinese for less than than one in the store here. I thought the USPO has a sign up - no shipping lithium batteries through the mail. And how can the postage be so gol darn cheap when ours is so gol darn high? and yes, I didn't pay sales tax. Now that's a little thing, but all those little things undermine what? and what happens when we can get no batteries in the USA if the Chinese don't want us to? What then?

      •  Careful! (1+ / 0-)
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        I've learned first hand that it is not proper etiquette to criticize Democrats on this web site. You might be accused of being a right-wing troll. It might be because we're all expected to blindly (and ignorantly) follow our fearless leaders into the Abyss, without any thought at all. And then drool in rapture while doing so. So I'll be trying to keep any of my future topics more apolitical (except when I sometimes feel like bashing the Tea Party or the Republicans.)

        If people won't go protest in the streets, then they'll end up sleeping on them instead.

        by Bud Meyers on Sun Jun 09, 2013 at 03:21:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, I read that diary (0+ / 0-)

          Whew! Hot stuff ...

          The Democratic Party needs to carefully think of where it is going. We are in a position today in which we take states on the senatorial - presidential level, yet every unit of government below that state level is wholly owned by the Repukeliscum. Look at MI, WI, PA, OH - all states that went comfortably for Obama, and yet the Repukes have a majority of the HoR delegation, the statehouse, a majority in (both houses) of the state legislature, and many if not all local officials.

          And why is that? Simple. The Democratic Party is living on ONLY large city populations, and has NOTHING of any interest to anyone in rural areas anymore.

          And the immigration bill is going to make that process even stronger. While we are attracting the Hispanic vote, we are losing the white working class vote, and when students realize how much we have fucked them over, there will be hell to pay.

          Thanks for your thoughtful and sensible comment.

        •  Not correct. (1+ / 0-)
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          What is unacceptable is to blindly lash away without offering any solutions of your own. I'm willing to bet that the left column of the 101st Fighting Keyboarders here would have done almost exactly what Obama has done if they had been in his position. Brave words are cheap. Tell us how you'd translate them into brave realities.

          "They smash your face in, and say you were always ugly." (Solzhenitsyn)

          by sagesource on Sun Jun 09, 2013 at 07:42:46 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Probably has to do with this diarist's (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      history. I personally see this diary as mojo gathering to make up for the shitty, RW trolling in others.

      I'd like to start a new meme: "No means no" is a misnomer. It should be "Only 'Yes' means yes." Just because someone doesn't say "No" doesn't mean they've given consent. If she didn't say "Yes", there is no consent.

      by second gen on Sun Jun 09, 2013 at 12:37:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No mojo at all... (0+ / 0-)

        If you want my history, read ALL my Daily Kos posts --- or go to the right-hand column of my blog and pick any date of your choosing --- and read what I've been saying on this subject for the past 2½ years.

        Just because you might have bitterly disagreed with me on my opinion on one subject (such as having Hillary Clinton in the White House), doesn't make me a RW troll.

        And BTW, I am not now, nor have I ever been, a member of a third political party either. You know nothing at all about me. Speaking of which, what other subjects are you ignorant about?

        If people won't go protest in the streets, then they'll end up sleeping on them instead.

        by Bud Meyers on Sun Jun 09, 2013 at 03:13:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  No thanks. I've already read enough. (0+ / 0-)

          I'd like to start a new meme: "No means no" is a misnomer. It should be "Only 'Yes' means yes." Just because someone doesn't say "No" doesn't mean they've given consent. If she didn't say "Yes", there is no consent.

          by second gen on Sun Jun 09, 2013 at 05:17:53 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Even if this diarist has unacceptable opinions.... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        ....can you give me a reason why your unsupported personal insult here should not result in a hide rating?

        "They smash your face in, and say you were always ugly." (Solzhenitsyn)

        by sagesource on Sun Jun 09, 2013 at 07:44:34 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Thank you... (0+ / 0-)

      It's always nice to get a kudo.

      If people won't go protest in the streets, then they'll end up sleeping on them instead.

      by Bud Meyers on Sun Jun 09, 2013 at 03:22:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  An error (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        You write:

        The Chinese eventually agreed to a peaceful settlement for the normalization of relations regarding Taiwan and enabled the U.S. and China to open trade.

        China did not agree to any peaceful settlement and has never renounced the use of force to annex Taiwan. Indeed, officials make regular threats and China's military build up, as Chinese officials have said, is aimed at annexing the island by force.


        •  This is correct but.... (0+ / 0-)

          .... until they start building a fleet of landing vessels, any threat to invade Taiwan is empty. And probably afterward, for that matter. You've seen the Taiwan coast. It's an effing nightmare for long-distance amphibious operations.

          I understand the reasons for Beijing keeping a hard-line position on eventual reunification, but I think too much of the intelligence of the people running the PLA to suppose they'd seriously consider a suicide operation. Lots of shouting, little preparation is about the mix of action one would expect, given the circumstances.

          "They smash your face in, and say you were always ugly." (Solzhenitsyn)

          by sagesource on Sun Jun 09, 2013 at 07:51:19 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Any threat to invade Taiwan is not empty... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            auron renouille

            ....since direct invasion is hardly the only way they can annex Taiwan via military means.

            Further, the coast is hardly the only way to get troops onto Taiwan; the island has innumerable ports of various sizes. And of course they need not have dedicated landing craft; they have plenty of fishing boats.

            As for the intelligence of PLA leaders, recall that they are the hardliners on Taiwan. It would not be difficult to make a list of nations who launched suicidal wars, out of arrogance, miscalculation, or desperation.

            •  Taiwan owns China (0+ / 0-)

              They outsource manufacturing to China and collect the profits.

              We need to be careful not to mark China as an enemy.  Free-market capitalist competitor, yes.  

              But not a threat to our security.  They have been merchants and capitalists for millennium.

              Joy shared is doubled. Pain shared is halved. Spider Robinson

              by nolagrl on Mon Jun 10, 2013 at 08:13:16 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  China and Taiwan opened direct flights... (0+ / 0-)

              a few years ago.

              That feud will die down as those originally involved age-out and newer generations come to power unencumbered by bitter memories(like younger Cuban-Americans supplanting their parents/grandparents).

              Besides, why would two booming, successful nations throw it all away to fight a fight they'd BOTH lose?

            •  They Invade Taiwan, We Don't Repay China (0+ / 0-)

              ....and it's adios China.  The rest of the world applauds as the Chinese economy is vaporized.   Is any country in the world going to abandon the dollar as the reserve currency as a result?  Anyone?  

              There’s always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby

              by bernardpliers on Mon Jun 10, 2013 at 02:25:33 PM PDT

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          •  China has been developing a true blue navy (0+ / 0-)

            It is their fervent wish to continue to project power. In many ways, looking at china is like looking in the mirror. There are important differences surely.

      •  a minor error (0+ / 0-)

        Clinton signed the African Growth and Opportunity act in 2000. Bush signed an extension in 2004.

        The evidence is overwhelming: Hilary hired that Ben Gahzee guy to kill Vince Foster.

        by ebrann on Sun Jun 09, 2013 at 09:33:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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