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View Diary: New York Times Editors: OK Let's have a Real Debate (54 comments)

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  •  You acknowledge the fact that ... (0+ / 0-)

    ... newer techologies require newer searches, which is good on you. They also create new potential for problems, and we need to discuss them. But I wanted to know if someone can give me an argument about this case, based on the facts known about this case, not an Amnesty case decided on other issues.

    When you state this ...

    "USA Today makes it sound like they built some machine which "cannot be used" to target Americans. He's just restating the laws he's supposed to be following."
    My questions for you are as follows: How do you know they didn't build a data searching process that excludes American citizens and Americans abroad? That's what most agencies do; their routine is prescribed by the regulations that empower and curtail them, no? And when you say the laws "he's supposed to be following," you imply that he is not. What is your evidence of this?

    I would tip you, but the man took away my tips.

    by Tortmaster on Tue Jun 11, 2013 at 03:47:02 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  because that's almost impossible (0+ / 0-)
      How do you know they didn't build a data searching process that excludes American citizens and Americans abroad?
      The internet doesn't stick a "US CITIZEN" tag on all your packets. People in other countries talk to each other through computers and backbone cables in the US, people in the US talk to each other through servers in other countries. Part of what the NSA is supposed to be doing is spying on foreigners inside the US talking to people outside. They can't just make a list of domestic IP addresses and ignore anything that uses one of them. With phone conversations it's somewhat easier, but not that easy. They need to get into billing records, and plenty of businesses run VOIP servers where overseas employees can make calls through the phone number in the US.

      The only thing they're legally required to do is not spy on Americans when they know in advance. That's not even possible if they tried most of the time, and the only way to sort-of do it would be pervasive spying on Americans to find out that they are Americans so the NSA can stop spying on them. And even then that only lasts the 20 minutes until you sign up for a new free cloud storage site or messaging app that's not associated with your physical location unless they do more extensive domestic spying to trace it back.

      •  and all that pervasive domestic spying (0+ / 0-)

        ...to prevent pervasive domestic spying would be fantastically expensive. And even though the NSA is burning through more money than NASA at the height of the Apollo program, spending that on creating an algorithm to delete mountains of totally legal and potentially actionable intelligence in order to go above and beyond any privacy protections Congress asked for is going to get somebody fired.

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