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View Diary: Immigration reform moving to the full Senate (52 comments)

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  •  Changing status does nothing. (0+ / 0-)

    That is the huge falsehood that people are swallowing.

    If we legalize the 11 million guys already here, they will get political protections and bargaining power that will increase their wages. I admit that.

    But what will employers do? They will do the same thing they did before -- bring over more illegals.

    To stop this from happening, we will need big border fences, National ID cards, paperwork checks, databases, and huge penalties for American employers who hire illegals. This stuff is not in the bill.

    Why isn't it in there? Because Americans don't want it:

    - Corporations don't want the penalties and paperwork.
    - Civil Liberties fans don't like the ID cards and databases.
    - Humanitarians don't want to turn away people just looking for a better life.
    - Rich people don't want to face penalties for hiring a nanny or gardener.

    This is not going to work. Not in this form.

    •  I don't think so. (0+ / 0-)

      It's not like all of the "illegals" will suddenly become legal and then waltz into corner offices and six figure salaries.  They will still be doing unskilled labor jobs for the most part, for perhaps slightly more $.

      It's dishonest to blame illegal immigrants for falling wages in America.  Corporate America’s push to outsource jobs — whether call-center jobs to India or factory jobs to China — has fattened corporate earnings, while holding down wages at home. New technologies have raised productivity and profits, while enabling companies to shed workers and slice payroll. Computers have replaced workers who tabulated numbers; robots have pushed aside many factory workers.

      When productivity goes up, not everybody benefits, just as not everybody benefits from globalization.  

      The soft job market and the declining power of labor unions are also important factors behind low wages.  It isn't just "illegals" reducing the leverage of workers to demand higher  wages.

      •  What Is The Difference (0+ / 0-)

        Whether I import cheaper labor to the job or export the job to cheaper labor? I have asked you this question once already, you had no answer.

        It's dishonest to blame illegal immigrants for falling wages in America.  Corporate America’s push to outsource jobs — whether call-center jobs to India or factory jobs to China — has fattened corporate earnings, while holding down wages at home

        If I import cheaper labor to a job in the U.S., how does that not also 'fatten corporate earnings, while holding down wages at home'?

        New technologies have raised productivity and profits, while enabling companies to shed workers and slice payroll. Computers have replaced workers who tabulated numbers; robots have pushed aside many factory workers

        Yet we are going to legalize millions of new workers and put them in direct competition with American workers, and at the same time we are going to blow the lid off of the current caps on legal immigration, blow the caps off of current guest worker visa programs, and create two new guest worker visa programs to go along with the ten we already have?

        I won't be coming home tonight, my generation will put it right - Genesis 9:3

        by superscalar on Tue Jun 11, 2013 at 09:02:09 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Psst. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          wishingwell

          They are already in direct competition with American workers.

          Immigrants are oftentimes the only labor available to do many unskilled jobs, and if they were eliminated, most would not be replaced. Instead, whole sectors of the economy would shrivel.  Look how many massive corporate farms have opened in Mexico, where Big Agra does not have to deal with labor shortages.

          In 1960, half of all the native-born men in the U.S. labor force were high school dropouts who took unskilled outdoor jobs in agriculture and construction. Today, fewer than 10 percent of the native-born men in the work force lack high school diplomas. But the economy still generates plenty of unskilled jobs, and most unskilled immigrants don't displace American workers. They fill niches — not just farmhand, but also chambermaid, busboy and others — that would otherwise go empty. And they support more skilled, more desirable jobs — foremen, accountants, waiters, chefs and more — at the businesses where they work and others in the surrounding community.

          What Is The Difference whether I import cheaper labor to the job or export the job to cheaper labor?  Every farm job supports three to four others up and downstream in the local economy: from the people who make and sell fertilizer and farm machinery to those who work in trucking, food processing, grocery stores and restaurants. Do we really want to lose those jobs too? No one in America is going to benefit from expelling immigrant farm workers. And the cost won't be pennies: it will run to billions of dollars.

          Our "legal immigration" system does not work.  It's hopelessly broken.  My neighbor has been waiting for 22 years to become a citizen.   22 year of working and contributing and hiring Americans and 22 years of paying taxes.  And you'd like her because she's English and white.

          •  Pssst, No They Aren't (0+ / 0-)

            Because they don't have legal status

            Our "legal immigration" system does not work.  It's hopelessly broken.  My neighbor has been waiting for 22 years to become a citizen

            Because your neighbor has waited 22 years to become a citizen (ten of which are pretty much mandatory and have been for decades now) our immigration system is 'broken'.

            And you'd like her because she's English and white.

            I'm through here. I will breathlessly await you next stupid non sequitur.

            I won't be coming home tonight, my generation will put it right - Genesis 9:3

            by superscalar on Tue Jun 11, 2013 at 09:29:12 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

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