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View Diary: I'm too proud and unapologetic to brag about it to the likes of you. :D (106 comments)

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  •  There has to be some rational proportion. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Larsstephens, Onomastic

    It's completely insane to be hysterically enraged at one man who manages one-third of the government for defending a bad program he inherited. Where is the outrage at Congress, at the courts, at the American people for going through four election cycles in the knowledge of this kind of activity without it ever deciding a Congressional or other race?  Seriously, what would you guess the proportion of outrage over this is directed at Obama personally, as opposed to the Executive Branch generally or any other part of the federal government?  Here on Daily Kos, as far as I've seen I'd say it's close to 100%.  It's Derangement on steroids.

    Nothing makes a Republican angrier than a smile on a poor child's face.

    by Troubadour on Tue Jun 11, 2013 at 03:03:12 PM PDT

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    •  The excuse of inheritance is meaningless here. (0+ / 0-)

      Obama vigorously sought the job (twice now) with the promise he would "change" things.  He has done nothing to even attempt to change the NSA program, as evidenced by the plethora of executive orders he issued on numerous other subjects while remaining silent on this issue.  After the program was publicly exposed, Obama expressed no outrage because he's not outraged, he clearly supports it ... and has sicced the DoJ on Snowden.  Obama is now just as responsible as Bush.

      "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

      by Neuroptimalian on Tue Jun 11, 2013 at 03:58:32 PM PDT

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      •  Reality is not "meaningless." (4+ / 0-)

        He inherited an intelligence infrastructure intimately tied into this kind of information-gathering, and no other part of the government has tried to rein it in - not Congress, not the courts, and not the professionals whose judgment he depends on on a daily basis to do anything.  And if he had ordered it stopped, he couldn't tell you about it, because a President can't go around bragging that they're ignoring their own subordinates and smashing the US intelligence infrastructure.  

        The only way you'd hear about it would be after a terrorist attack, when those same people would blame it on that very action, and of course the people shrieking about the issue would be nowhere to be found in his defense.  There's no possible way for a President to win on this subject, and that's why none ever have.  

        That's why after WW2 we went from a total surveillance state to another total surveillance state focused on Russia; why the modest inroads by the Carter administration were villified by everyone, including the left who considered him a sellout; and why after the Cold War the security state actually accelerated before launching into the stratosphere after 9/11.  The Executive Branch has to be reined in from Congress and the courts where it comes to security.  That's the lesson here.  

        If we don't want to learn it, then we're not going to make progress on the subject and we'll just be villifying one President after another until we don't have any freedom left to criticize at all.  Demonizing Presidents is easy, but they're in power for a maximum of eight years while the NSA and CIA are lifetime careers.  So if you want to put that in check, we have to put reformers in the other lifetime careers - Congress and the courts.

        Nothing makes a Republican angrier than a smile on a poor child's face.

        by Troubadour on Tue Jun 11, 2013 at 04:22:30 PM PDT

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        •  If Obama had "ordered it stopped", ... (0+ / 0-)

          we'd certainly have heard about it this week, rather than what he and Carney actually did say. You're surely not trying to claim he made any such order ... or even desired to move in that direction, are you?   If so, upon what statement(s) do you rely?

          "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

          by Neuroptimalian on Tue Jun 11, 2013 at 04:56:55 PM PDT

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          •  Michael Moore also hopped on the bandwagon ... (0+ / 0-)

            of Hollywood's backlash today, tweeting

            “the administration has now lost all credibility” while spotlighting a 2007 Obama quote: “that means no more illegal wiretapping of American citizens. No more (spying) on citizens... No more tracking citizens..."

            "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

            by Neuroptimalian on Tue Jun 11, 2013 at 05:34:51 PM PDT

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          •  No, I'm saying this is a catch-22. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Onomastic

            Presidents can't win on this issue.  They can't brag about what they accomplish, and what they fail at is defined completely by their enemies.  You can only judge this stuff in context, not from an ideological checklist.

            Nothing makes a Republican angrier than a smile on a poor child's face.

            by Troubadour on Tue Jun 11, 2013 at 11:33:32 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

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