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View Diary: International leaders demand answers about NSA spying (287 comments)

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  •  Being worse means you shouldn't cite them (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    duhban

    as authority. At least.

    "We're now in one of those periods when the reality of intense pressure on the middle class diverges from long-held assumptions of how the American bargain should work" --James Fallows

    by Inland on Tue Jun 11, 2013 at 02:14:55 PM PDT

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    •  I wouldn't say that (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kyril

      I'd say that it's important to be able to support sources that are being cited.  

      It doesn't mean that they are pristine, but it is an important part of the discussion of global politics.  If we don't acknowledge the fact that the US is not alone in this, then we are dupes.

      Streichholzschächtelchen

      by otto on Tue Jun 11, 2013 at 02:18:25 PM PDT

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    •  um (10+ / 0-)

      i cited them exactly because it shows how we've lost credibility to criticize them.

      The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

      by Laurence Lewis on Tue Jun 11, 2013 at 02:21:42 PM PDT

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      •  Says who? China? (0+ / 0-)

        As if the PRC ever accepted that anyone, including its own people, could challenge the policies of the government.  And by "could", I don't just mean being imprisoned and prosecuted for speaking out. I mean that the state controls the very media outlet you cite and blocks opinion.

        That's what a police state looks like.

        Politics makes strange bedfellows.

        "We're now in one of those periods when the reality of intense pressure on the middle class diverges from long-held assumptions of how the American bargain should work" --James Fallows

        by Inland on Tue Jun 11, 2013 at 02:47:00 PM PDT

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        •  yes (9+ / 0-)

          as i said, we're not as bad as china. yay us.

          The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

          by Laurence Lewis on Tue Jun 11, 2013 at 03:48:03 PM PDT

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          •  Yet you still cite China as authority on liberty. (0+ / 0-)

            Care to explain why?

            Because the only explanation I can think of is, you don't care about the intentions or good faith of the speaker, as long as it's badmouthing the US's program.  

            And that was just the most egregious example of you picking up whatever cudgel you can find.   The self serving hems and haws of the other nations are presented with all the naivete and trust that nobody would manage for the US government.  Bah.

            "We're now in one of those periods when the reality of intense pressure on the middle class diverges from long-held assumptions of how the American bargain should work" --James Fallows

            by Inland on Tue Jun 11, 2013 at 06:35:45 PM PDT

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            •  i know this is hard (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              cpresley, Dianna

              but i cite them as being able to call us on our hypocrisy. not a good position for us when china can tell us that we do it, too.

              The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

              by Laurence Lewis on Tue Jun 11, 2013 at 07:53:21 PM PDT

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              •  No, you CHOOSE to ignore China's actual status (0+ / 0-)

                in order to give its charges legitimacy and make a false equivalence.

                "We're now in one of those periods when the reality of intense pressure on the middle class diverges from long-held assumptions of how the American bargain should work" --James Fallows

                by Inland on Wed Jun 12, 2013 at 05:19:51 AM PDT

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        •  And yet we have a larger prison (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kyril, Just Bob, Tirge Caps

          population than China and a quarter of their population. But all those people are criminals so it doesn't count. Oh, and we arrest people of color at much higher rates. But being racist doesn't make you a police state, because police states are totally about equality.

          If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

          by AoT on Tue Jun 11, 2013 at 04:41:52 PM PDT

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    •  "But Mom, he did it too" (0+ / 0-)

      You think that makes it good, don't you.

      LMFWAO

      Don't trust anyone over 84414

      by BentLiberal on Tue Jun 11, 2013 at 07:24:24 PM PDT

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