Skip to main content

View Diary: Senate votes to move forward with immigration debate (47 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  GOP will still find a way (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Old Sailor

    To screw Latino voters for the next generation.

    They just can't help themselves.

    "Work for something because it is good, not just because it stands a chance to succeed." -- Vaclav Havel

    by greendem on Tue Jun 11, 2013 at 01:41:56 PM PDT

    •  I don't understand. (0+ / 0-)

      What does the immigration bill have to do with Latino voters?

      My Latino neighbor is a legal immigrant. What interest does he have in seeing large numbers of illegal immigrants get amnesty?

      •  Well, for starters, families will be able to apply (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Old Sailor, greendem

        to stay in this country legally so they won't be afraid of getting ripped apart in Deportation hearings, so even with your neighbor legal, he's probably got a number of acquaintances who aren't.  In addition, there will be a sharp reduction in things like Arizona's "Papers Please" laws where driving/working/existing while brown are almost automatic excuses for police in some areas to stop and harass Hispanics just because of racial profiling.  Not immediately, but within a few years, as more and more Latinos are granted citizenship, there will be more and more chance for his voice to be heard because he and his fellow Latinos will be a block of voters that even the Republicans can't sh*t on anymore if they want to win elections.

        That's just barely scratching the surface on why I think this bill will be a good deal for the country - not just your Latino neighbor.

        •  If my neighbor... (0+ / 0-)

          ...has family members who want to come here isn't there an expedited process for them? One that is better than the 13 years currently proposed?

          Also, the Arizona laws won't go away. We will still need to keep future illegal immigrants out, and there will still be no end of proposals (both smart ones and dumb ones) to do that.

          Lastly, my neighbor has a good job. Surely he understands that more immigrants will lower his wages?

          •  Not really (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ManhattanMan
            If my neighbour...has family members who want to come here isn't there an expedited process for them? One that is better than the 13 years currently proposed?
            Short answer? No.

            "Violence never requires translation, but it often causes deafness." - Bareesh the Hutt.

            by Australian2 on Tue Jun 11, 2013 at 03:04:01 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  So this bill doesn't even... (0+ / 0-)

              ...make things better for the people we most logically would want to help?

              Is there anything good about the bill at all?

              This supports my original rhetorical question: "Why would a Latino voter like this bill?"

              (BTW, excellent link. I had no idea the "legal" process was that horrible).

              •  That's the current system. (0+ / 0-)

                I'm not up to speed on the specifics of what the bill does - for that, I'm afraid that you'll have to ask someone else.

                "Violence never requires translation, but it often causes deafness." - Bareesh the Hutt.

                by Australian2 on Tue Jun 11, 2013 at 04:23:08 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

      •  Let me list the reasons (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Senor Unoball, Faito, greendem

        (1) He probably doesn't want to be racially profiled.

        (2) Your idea of illegal immigrant may not be his - he may well understand with more nuance than you do the failures of the current system and the impossible choices facing immigrants.

        (3)  He may not be as scared of competition for his job as perhaps you might be.

        (4)  He might have a stake in a business that depends upon the strength of the general economy, which benefits by legalization.

        (5)  He might feel uncomfortable deporting 11 million people, most of whom work as hard or harder than his neighbors.

        (6)  He might actually know some kids who came here with their parents, and for whom this is home - and he may be a decent enough human being to realize that those kids are as fully American as those who would deport them.

        “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

        by ivorybill on Tue Jun 11, 2013 at 02:12:00 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Good reply. (0+ / 0-)

          But ManhattanMan doesn't have a Latino neighbor who is a legal immigrant.  S/he is just trying to goad people into disagreeing.

          •  I'm not going to go down that road (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Faito

            I would rather assume goodwill.  I think Manhattan Man is seriously worried that his job in the IT sector will disappear.  I work with immigrants and used to work on policy for an immigrant rights group, so I'm firmly in the pro-comprehensive immigration reform camp.  I find myself getting annoyed at the IT sector who see their needs and interests first... but, they are scared of losing their jobs.  They are scared to be 50 and unemployed and in the 2013 parallel to mill workers in the South 40 years ago. So I'm goint to dial back my annoyance and try to understand their fear.

            Bottom line for me, though, is that we need a pathway to full equal status for those who are here and who are contributing members of our society.  I don't want anything to stop that from happening.  But I am going to try to be less hostile to those who fear these changes.

            “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

            by ivorybill on Tue Jun 11, 2013 at 02:33:42 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Dude, in my neighborhood... (0+ / 0-)

            ...I have few neighbors who are not Latino. My name is "ManhattanMan", not "Midtown ManhattanMan".

            But yes, I do want to provoke some discussion of this. I have knocked on doors for Democrats in upstate districts and this bill is not something I want around my neck when I canvass in 2014.

            I believe that we are making a mistake. But I've been wrong before, so I'm asking to be talked down.

        •  Point-by-point (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Tweedledee5

          1) Legalizing 11 million people won't make racism go away. And since the bill does little to slow future immigration, brown people will still be suspected of being illegals.

          2) Understandable. We tend to sympathize with people who have had similar experiences.

          3) and 4) He is not a 1%-ter. He works for a living. His assets are his house and his car. He does not have $500,000 invested in the S&P 500.

          5) If the bill fails, we are not deporting 11 million people (physically impossible). We just begin negotiating again.

          6) The kids, aka "DREAMers" are the most sympathetic players in the negotiation. Surely something can be done for the kids without screwing over American workers?

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

  • Recommended (127)
  • Community (60)
  • 2016 (47)
  • Elections (43)
  • Environment (37)
  • Climate Change (32)
  • Bernie Sanders (32)
  • Hillary Clinton (30)
  • Republicans (29)
  • Education (28)
  • Civil Rights (28)
  • Media (28)
  • Culture (27)
  • Law (25)
  • Science (25)
  • Congress (24)
  • Barack Obama (23)
  • Labor (20)
  • Economy (19)
  • Trans-Pacific Partnership (18)
  • Click here for the mobile view of the site