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View Diary: The simple change in wording that shows why you should ignore polls on the NSA leak (140 comments)

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  •  I'm not seeing where he justified ignoring (8+ / 0-)

    polls. He seemed to be saying, despite all the data/communication monitoring going on in our daily lives, it's still apparently difficult to do accurately.

    That's how I read it, at least.




    Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us.
    ~ Jerry Garcia

    by DeadHead on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 01:53:28 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  "why you should ignore polls..." (6+ / 0-)

      I doubt he actually meant it, but he did put it in the title.

      Better Know Your Voting System with the Verifier!

      by HudsonValleyMark on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 04:16:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  lol. That's what I get for reading the diary (5+ / 0-)

        Before actually reading the title. ;)

        In context with the rest of the diary, I took it to mean, "don't take them at face value."




        Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us.
        ~ Jerry Garcia

        by DeadHead on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 04:28:43 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I took it that way too, but I empathize with FOoW (4+ / 0-)

          I think folks can be very quick to imagine that the American people ether agree with them, or would agree with them if only they knew a bit more. A while back there was a rec-list diary about why "Americans Are Outraged," and in many ways it was a good diary, but the premise was completely unsupported -- or, in the alternative, almost tautological (true if at least two Americans are outraged). I decided not to take that title literally, either. But I think we all have a propensity to filter out discrepant information, and I would generally rather not see it encouraged, even rhetorically.

          Your paraphrase seems fair, and excellent advice.

          Better Know Your Voting System with the Verifier!

          by HudsonValleyMark on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 04:50:11 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  But you don't have to imagine. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Sunspots, FishOutofWater, DeadHead

            You can analyze how the results change in response to a wording change in the polls, and draw conclusions based on that.

            Defending the theft of our freedom by the government is not a legitimate difference of opinion on a political matter -- it is a deeply un-American attitude that deserves nothing but scorn and derision.--Dallasdoc

            by SouthernLiberalinMD on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 07:36:59 AM PDT

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            •  yeah, but that takes work :) (3+ / 0-)

              And it still can be subject to confirmation bias (people tend to be a lot more critical of question wording when they don't like the result) -- but at least it provides some possibility of reality-testing.

              In this same survey, folks were asked, "Do you think the government's collection of Americans’ phone call records is a necessary tool to help find terrorists, or do you think it is NOT necessary?" 53% said it was necessary; 40% that it wasn't. So, what does that mean? It may just mean that some people construed "Americans" as "ordinary Americans" and others construed it as "Americans who are suspected of terrorist activity." It could mean some other things, which aren't mutually exclusive. As I said, plenty of room for confirmation bias.

              Better Know Your Voting System with the Verifier!

              by HudsonValleyMark on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 08:48:40 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Mutually Exclusive, no? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                WillR

                "Ordinary Americans" are not suspects, while "Americans who are suspected of terrorist activity", are another kettle of fish altogether. I

                Searching suspects potentially involved in terrorist activities is precisely what the law is supposed to be. I'd have no problems with that, American or not. Americans not suspected of criminal activity, or connected to such a suspect, should be free of government searches.

                These are not the same poll with different language. They're two different polls altogether. The results don't surprise me.

                “I’m able to fly, do what I want, essentially. I guess that’s what freedom is — no limits.” Marybeth Onyeukwu -- Brooklyn DREAMer.

                by chuco35 on Sat Jun 15, 2013 at 01:16:21 PM PDT

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        •  There's a larger point to be made though (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DeadHead

          see my other comment.

          Defending the theft of our freedom by the government is not a legitimate difference of opinion on a political matter -- it is a deeply un-American attitude that deserves nothing but scorn and derision.--Dallasdoc

          by SouthernLiberalinMD on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 07:36:13 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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