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View Diary: Catholic Bishops fighting losing battle in Ireland (14 comments)

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  •  The last minute changes (7+ / 0-)

    are not good. 14 years in prison for an abortion, unauthorized I presume, for the doctor AND the woman. Sounds like going abroad for an abortion will not exempt one from prison. Institutions have a right to refuse to give an abortion, so a woman will be trundled around to get to one that will.

    "We have cast our lot with something bigger than ourselves" - President Obama, July 30, 2010

    by Overseas on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 02:03:03 AM PDT

    •  Agreed (4+ / 0-)

      But people will soon know which hospitals provide abortions and which don't. Most are originally either Catholic or Protestant founded institutions with the latter having a more "liberal" ethos - i.e. they will listen to what the women actually wants.

      No one has ever been prosecuted for having an abortion abroad and I suspect the constitutional rights to travel and to privacy would trump any attempt to do so.

      But hey, there's always a first! Maybe we'll even see a Bishop prosecuted for obstructing the law and perverting the course of justice! I'm still waiting for hell to freeze over

    •  so the recent situation where a woman was (3+ / 0-)

      denied a life saving operation to remove a moribund fetus and prevent sepsis will continue for all practical purposes?

      A random thought occurred to me that many of the most pious countries are also in the most economic hot water.  It would seem that such severe restraints on a medical procedure would cause any company looking at relocating or expanding in such countries to think twice unless they were assured they could staff completely with locals

      •  No - the legislation is intended to ensure (3+ / 0-)

        that doesn't happen again.

        'Inadequate assessment' in Halappanavar's care - RTÉ News

        The report says the risk of infection increased with time and after the spontaneous rupture of Mrs Halappanavar's membranes in the early hours of Monday 22 October, the day following her admission to the hospital.

        The report also refers to termination of pregnancy and concludes that there was a failure to offer all clinical management options for a patient experiencing inevitable miscarriage early in the second trimester and where the risk to the mother increased with time.

        It says the Oireachtas should look at providing legal guidance in this area to clinicians.

        There was a failure to follow up blood tests, a lack of accountability and a failure to adhere to clinical guidelines on the management of sepsis.

        Of course, it is still possible some "pro-life" doctor will fail to follow the legislation and clinical guidelines.
        •  thank you for the clarification (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Frank Schnittger

          sometimes I am a bit slow on the uptake

        •  And don't forget she couldn't even be given (5+ / 0-)

          an epidural (much less strong pain medication) to at least make her death less agonizing for "moral reasons" apparently.

          You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

          by Throw The Bums Out on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 06:32:27 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I can't confirm that that was the case (0+ / 0-)

            but if it did happen it was an extreme breach of clinical guidelines - there is no reason anyone should die in pain - and also Ireland has a very active hospice movement which, with Catholic Church involvement, ensures the dying do so as comfortably as possible to the point that pain medication may actually hasten death. Apparently if the "intent" is to control pain, the fact that the treatment hastens death is not a breach of Catholic ethics.

            The same logic should have applied to Savita: if the intent was to reduce her pain and risk of loss of life, a termination should not have been considered an abortion as far as Catholic (or any other) ethic was concerned. Unfortunately the Bishops don't seem to be able to gt their head around that, clinging to the fantasy that there is never a situation where there is a conflict between what is in the best (medical) interests of the mother, and of the foetus.

            That is why the Savita case was so damaging to the Bishop's position: it exposed the fallacy that there is never a conflict between the life of the mother and of the foetus and that there are (rare) times when the doctors or the patient must choose.

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