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View Diary: More white people died than were born, GOP policies whittling them down (256 comments)

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  •  Another way to discuss this is that (9+ / 0-)

    middle class people (of any race) are not having children as much as others. Part of this is how much they work, but I think more of it has to do with feeling no real need to have kids. I don't have kids myself, but it's not a point of especial pride, you know? I think if I could be a better person, I should have kids. I don't feel I could provide the right emotional and financial environment for a child. . .

    “liberals are the people who think that cruelty is the worst thing that we do” --Richard Rorty Also, I moved from NYC, so my username is inaccurate.

    by jeff in nyc on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 10:47:25 AM PDT

    •  whoa.. this is sooo idiocracy... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ChadmanFL, jeff in nyc

      I'd say being a democratic person or a person of any liberal bent is permission enough to know you will be good for children. You already are that better person! You may not have your own, but I'm sure people smile at you more than they do to the average person. And that's saying something.

      The day is coming when a single carrot, freshly observed, will set off a revolution. Paul Cezanne Heads up! Al Gore 2016

      by MeToo on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 11:08:43 AM PDT

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    •  it's a global thing (5+ / 0-)

      Not just Asia and Europe (and white American). Latin American fertility has also dropped tremendously.

      For example, Mexico is down to 2.27 children per woman while the US is 2.06. It's not really much different. For comparison, Brazil is 1.82, France is 2.08, Germany is 1.41 and Japan is 1.39.

      kos isn't wrong, exactly, but there's much more to the story than white vs immigrant fertility.

      •  And that's better for our planet. (5+ / 0-)

        Sounds like a lot of different countries are seeing their population growth level off. The closer we can get to net zero, the better for the environment.

        Real Democrats don't abandon the middle class. --John Kerry

        by Lucy Montrose on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 11:24:04 AM PDT

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      •  Yes, it's economics (3+ / 0-)

        As societies become more well off financially and better educated they have fewer children.  This is been shown by many studies.

        •  reduced infant mortality and a strong safety net (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          elfling, ferg

          If you can be pretty sure your children will survive to adulthood, you don't need to have a lot of them to make sure a few survive. And if you don't need the hands to help feed you, and don't need to depend on them to support you in your old age, you don't need lots of kids.

          So you don't have lots of kids. You have 2. Maybe 3. Maybe only 1.

          Kids are expensive. That's the biggest reason why people don't have more of them.

          Our expectations have also changed. When you have a farm and can use the kids to work, they're an asset. When you can sleep 5 to a room, you don't need to build a bigger house with every kid. When you can pile them all in a wagon when you make the trip to town, you don't need to replace your vehicle with every kid.

          When you have to provide more stuff, more room, and basically need to rethink your entire living arrangements every time you have a child, you have fewer kids.

      •  But the story is that (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        helpImdrowning, ferg

        folks like Pat Buchanan and Lou Dobbs look at the statistics and predict The Death Of America As We Know It, as baseball, hot dogs, apple pie and USA are replaced by soccer, tacos, flan and globalism.

        There's only one rule that I know of, babies -- goddammit, you've got to be kind. -- Kurt Vonnegut

        by Cali Scribe on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 12:05:25 PM PDT

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        •  And salsa has overtaken ketchup in condiment (0+ / 0-)

          sales, oh noes!!!!!  Personally, I much prefer tacos over hot dogs, but than I do like apple pie over flan, so net/net I guess that's a wash. ;D

          "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." - John F. Kennedy -7.8., -6.6

          by helpImdrowning on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 12:09:38 PM PDT

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          •  There's a place for everything (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            helpImdrowning

            Nothing like a good quality hot dog at a ball game (though I'll usually go for a Polish or bratwurst instead); tacos I prefer to eat at home because I have trouble with the lettuce falling out (have to leave off the chopped tomato because I'm allergic to it).

            There's only one rule that I know of, babies -- goddammit, you've got to be kind. -- Kurt Vonnegut

            by Cali Scribe on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 01:49:07 PM PDT

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            •  Don't get me wrong, about four times a year (0+ / 0-)

              I get this overwhelming craving for a chili dog. I get really good beef, bun size hot dogs, Dennison's Hot Chili, chop up some sweet white onions, and some good 'ole yellow mustard. I like to grill the dogs over charcoal and get a good char on 'em.  Very delicious. I do however, eat tacos like once a week or so. I grew up in California and tacos were just a staple of our diet.

              "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." - John F. Kennedy -7.8., -6.6

              by helpImdrowning on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 04:51:34 PM PDT

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