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  •  After you answer that question, please tell me (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    arizonablue, AoT

    why the NSA needs all this data storage.

    'If you want to be a hero, well just follow me.' - J. Lennon

    by Clive all hat no horse Rodeo on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 07:35:24 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  this is a strawman (0+ / 0-)

      I am not saying the NSA doesn't store data.

      I am saying there is no way to store even the daily US traffic let alone the entire world. The storage requirements (which since you are talking about some sort of RAID setup are probably three times what you would need) are just too much.

      Yes the NSA stores things, no it does not store the entire daily traffic of the US. It's just not even close to feasible.

      In the time that I have been given,
      I am what I am

      by duhban on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 08:03:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  See Aot's comment: important technical point... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SpecialKinFlag

        And could you please answer the questions?

        1. How do you think countries like China censor the Internet without monitoring it?

        2. Why does the NSA (et al.) need all that data storage?

        'If you want to be a hero, well just follow me.' - J. Lennon

        by Clive all hat no horse Rodeo on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 08:15:49 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  asdf (0+ / 0-)

          1. I answered already

          2. If you have a point make it I'm not really in the mood for games. Your question right now is a strawman. The NSA needs storage but  that doesn't mean they are sucking in everything. That's not logical.

          In the time that I have been given,
          I am what I am

          by duhban on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 08:30:00 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  1. What was your answer? I didn't see it. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            DeadHead

            2. You didn't read Aot's answer did you?

            Please answer the questions.

            'If you want to be a hero, well just follow me.' - J. Lennon

            by Clive all hat no horse Rodeo on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 08:36:53 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  You did not answer #1 (2+ / 0-)

            You only made a feeble attempt to answer the second question.

            Saying you aren't "in the mood for games" and dismissing questions as strawmen doesn't bring anyone any closer to understanding your view.

            If you have no answer, just admit it. It's not the end of the world.




            Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us.
            ~ Jerry Garcia

            by DeadHead on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 11:03:07 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  you are welcome to your opinion (0+ / 0-)

              but then again just because you shout the sky is purple doesn't make it so.

              I have engaged you and Clive with honest intent if you are only here to disrupt my diary I am going to ask you kindly to just please leave. I answered his questions as best as I understand them, if that doesn't satisfy you or Clive then by all means ask more questions.  But I am not going to put up with you or Clive derailing my diary.

              In the time that I have been given,
              I am what I am

              by duhban on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 11:59:49 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  You are basing this on traffic being unique (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DeadHead

        The total traffic flowing through the internet in the US will encompass the million people streaming the same exact movie from NetFlix for example. Or the million people streaming the same YouTube video. Or millions downloading the same damn porn. And so on and so on.

        Even this diary page only needs one copy - the last one - as it is cumulative.

        The actual unique content crossing the internet in the US - or the world for that matter - is probably close to 1/1000th of 1 percent of the total traffic.

        The storage requirements, without even considering compression, are significantly lower than you estimate.

        •  and you are pulling numbers out of thin air (0+ / 0-)

          and acting like you have a basis to use them

          Frankly uniqueness doesn't matter because even if me and you do exactly  the same thing there's no way to know if either of us is doing something without checking both.

          Thus unique or not it matter not.

          In the time that I have been given,
          I am what I am

          by duhban on Fri Jun 14, 2013 at 05:51:12 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  This is an important technical point (2+ / 0-)

      A lot of people are saying that there is no way that the government could scop up all the data on the internet and store it because it would just be too big. That may technically be true, although I bet they could store everything if they tried, but the more important point is that they don't need to store everything. When you take the total data transmitted everyday it's pretty huge, but then you subtract all the streaming video from places like netflix and Hulu and Amazon, because those can just be noted as metadata saying you watched some movie or another. Streaming video alone accounts for half of internet traffic in north america. That means you've cut the amount of data in half.

      If they just stored the text stuff then it would be a trivial problem. Email, web boards, etc. They could add internet telephony programs like skype or google talk by using text to speech software and then storing it as text. It wouldn't be perfect but neither would human agents listening to the phone calls. And I'd bet that the NSA has text to speech programs that are much better than publicly available. I'm not sure what that leaves other than various encrypted stuff the type of which isn't known.

      That's the unknown here. They almost certainly can't decrypt it on the fly, but I'd bet they would easily be able to capture all TOR traffic given the size of the network currently. There's also a good chance that they have algorythms to determine what they do and don't capture, which would also cut down on the necessary storage, as would text compression.

      If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

      by AoT on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 08:09:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  here's the problem with that approach (0+ / 0-)

        if I have a text document or some pictures I want to hide the best place to hide them is in a movie.

        Frankly if I really wanted to communicate I'd find a way to insert some code in Hulu, Amazon or Netflix that would add just a small text document.

        You can't just ignore the nontext

        In the time that I have been given,
        I am what I am

        by duhban on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 08:24:30 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah, but I can't send you data from Netflix (2+ / 0-)

          And how much streaming happens peer to peer? That isn't ilegal?

          And if you can just "insert some code in Hulu" then you don't have to worry about what you're talking about. That would require a pretty impressive knowledge of coding and internet security. Far more than you or I have.

          If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

          by AoT on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 10:04:20 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I smell something, and it ain't roses. nt (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Free Jazz at High Noon, DeadHead

            'If you want to be a hero, well just follow me.' - J. Lennon

            by Clive all hat no horse Rodeo on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 10:07:31 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Sounds like the title of a country song, that (2+ / 0-)
            •  I am trying to engage you honestly (0+ / 0-)

              and without prejudice but you are rapidly exhausting my patience.

              In the time that I have been given,
              I am what I am

              by duhban on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 11:06:32 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  No you aren't. Answer my questions, then (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                DeadHead

                we can decide if you are engaging honestly.

                'If you want to be a hero, well just follow me.' - J. Lennon

                by Clive all hat no horse Rodeo on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 11:08:39 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I have answered your questions (0+ / 0-)

                  if you have further ones let me know but continue being insulting and snide and I will ignore you.

                  In the time that I have been given,
                  I am what I am

                  by duhban on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 11:49:41 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  You haven't answered my questions. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    DeadHead

                    You asked anyone who would challenge the premise of your diary:

                       

                    And to those that want to contest this I want to ask a simple question, if it is possible to completely monitor the internet then why do nations like China censor the internet rather then monitoring it?
                    So I asked you:
                    How do you think countries like China censor the Internet without monitoring it?
                    To which I've yet to get an answer. The other question I asked is:
                    Why does the NSA (et al.) need all this data storage space?
                    Again, crickets. Now be so kind as to attempt to answer these questions in an adult fashion.

                    'If you want to be a hero, well just follow me.' - J. Lennon

                    by Clive all hat no horse Rodeo on Fri Jun 14, 2013 at 06:04:11 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

              •  I can't imagine how you'd hold up if you posted (1+ / 0-)

                a meta diary of the type we've been seeing lately.




                Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us.
                ~ Jerry Garcia

                by DeadHead on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 11:32:39 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  see this is why I dislike you (0+ / 0-)

                  because the minute you think it's just you and your like minded allies you turn nasty.

                  I tried for the sake of being nice to at least forgive you but you know I think it better if you just leave me alone and I leave you alone.

                  In the time that I have been given,
                  I am what I am

                  by duhban on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 11:50:44 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  There are thousands of people reading this... (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    DeadHead

                    thinking 'Wow, duhban is a dick!'... and not in a good way.

                    'If you want to be a hero, well just follow me.' - J. Lennon

                    by Clive all hat no horse Rodeo on Fri Jun 14, 2013 at 12:16:21 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  And, to your credit, I actually noticed that (0+ / 0-)

                    and was rather pleasantly surprised.

                    Now above, I simply made an observation on what appears to be your inability to field even a modest amount of pushback on your diary.

                    That you take things so incredibly personal, become defensive at the first indication of things not going your way, and refuse to even consider the possibility you might be wrong, are your issues, not mine.  




                    Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us.
                    ~ Jerry Garcia

                    by DeadHead on Fri Jun 14, 2013 at 12:29:10 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  no you made a nasty comment (0+ / 0-)

                      because hardly anyone is looking and it's unlikely anyone will in a small diary like this because I am not going to put up with Clive's bullshit.

                      I have tried my best to answer his questions if he doesn't like the answer too bad and if he feels they are incomplete then it is on Clive to communicate what Clive feels I am missing. Not to make assumptions and then insult me.

                      That's not how you communicate and there's nothing personal about this DeadHead. Neither you nor Clive are worth making this personal but neither am I going to be shy about hiding how past annoyed I am at what I see as an attempt to derail my diary because you or Clive don't like my answers.

                      I can always be wrong DeadHead, here's a shocker though so can you.

                      In the time that I have been given,
                      I am what I am

                      by duhban on Fri Jun 14, 2013 at 12:52:15 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Dude, this is your idea of a nasty comment? : (1+ / 0-)
                        I can't imagine how you'd hold up if you posted

                        a meta diary of the type we've been seeing lately.

                        Wow. You may want to consider growing a thicker skin. You should read this diary, posted back in 2005, long before either you or I were here:

                         Profanity, Propriety, Censorship, and Semantics

                        I guarantee you, you'll find it interesting.




                        Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us.
                        ~ Jerry Garcia

                        by DeadHead on Fri Jun 14, 2013 at 02:40:18 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  asdf (0+ / 0-)

                          before I comment further I want to make something crystal clear. I don't like you. I don't trust you at all let alone to act in good faith. This little thread has come to dominate my diary with Clive demanding me answer a question but not telling me what it is I am not answering while you act as his cheerleader.

                          I am only continuing to talk with you because I feel I should give this one last shot but I seriously am considering never responding ever again no matter how nice you randomly decide to be and reporting you to the admins for stalking me (as I know you will continue to follow me around) till you or me is gone.

                          If you want to have an actual discussion like adults sure but I am sick of your double act. I don't care if you are incredibly  impressed by this or utterly indifferent I want you to understand without a doubt where me and you stand.

                          You have a history of making snide, rude, condescending and arrogant comments to me. Was the comment you are referencing one of your worst? No but I have no tolerance for any of that from you. You want to talk? I would love that but you have used up all goodwill with me whether you want to change that or not is up to you. Right now in all honesty you are in the category of 'I would never even think about you let alone care if we never talked again'

                          The choice is yours but honestly I am not holding my breath.

                          In the time that I have been given,
                          I am what I am

                          by duhban on Fri Jun 14, 2013 at 04:37:19 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

          •  actually in theory you could (0+ / 0-)

            granted it's probably easier to just embed something into youtube and share account access.

            That said if you can figure out a way to inject code into a netflix stream you could but as I said honestly it's far easier to just go to youtube or a torrent site. But even then you still couldn't ignore those streams.

            And frankly there are people with the knowledge and means I would posit that they don't because there is no point.

            But if you are going to monitoring the internet you can't just cherry pick.

            In the time that I have been given,
            I am what I am

            by duhban on Thu Jun 13, 2013 at 11:05:35 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

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