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  •  again, which facts does greenwald have wrong? (10+ / 0-)

    part of action is information, and sharing that information. Action comes with you and I contacting our representatives, and talking to the people around us and informing them of our own actions, and the information we know.

    If you have ideas for larger actions, I'm am open and ready to join you.

    But still, I'm curious which facts does Greenwald have wrong?

    Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell. --Edward Abbey

    by greenbastard on Fri Jun 14, 2013 at 08:40:13 AM PDT

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    •  Crickets (5+ / 0-)

      I thought that conspiracy theories were bannable here?

      "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

      by kovie on Fri Jun 14, 2013 at 08:57:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  We don't know yet. His article is being (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      artmartin

      challenged as hyperbolic, ie computers that are waiting for your next keystroke seems a stretch.  We just don't know yet.  We won't know unless we're effective in demanding answers.  Could Snowden have easily accessed the content of my calls to my daughter?  He implied he could, the NSA says it's a database of who I called, when, and how long we talked.  Do I know which is true?  No.  

      I have learned to check original source material before I buy Greenwald's take on anything Democrats or Obama said.  He cuts and pastes to change the meaning of a speech.  I don't expect everyone to do that, I simply don't trust his slant on Obama or Democrats.  I actually don't care enough about him to track his dishonesty anymore.  I was a semi-supporter of his until I read a post about an Obama speech I had heard and I thought I was going crazy because the speech and GG's take on it were completely different.  So I looked up the transcript and Glenn had tied 2 unrelated sentence fragments together and created a whole different meaning to the speech, "quoting" his edit as Obama's words.  That's Fox News shit and it pissed me off royally.  If I can't trust lefty blogs where do I go for real information?  He got called on this one and started a Twitter battle over it.  Childish.  

      So, personalities aside, I still don't know what's really happening.  I believe there's huge quantities of metadata out there in NSA computers.  If they're collecting it for analysis of a specific threat and have followed legal guidelines it's not that big a deal to me.  If it's a regular massive data dump just in case there's something to find I'm not okay with it and I want it to stop.  Mostly I want some sane conversations about the illusion of safety Americans seem to be buying and how to frame that so more of us get it that safety IS an illusion and one not worth surrendering our core principles to.  

      A friend used to say "When married people argue about dust in the corner they are NOT arguing about dust in the corner."  I say when Progressives are fighting about how to avoid being Good Germans we've lost the ability to do anything useful or productive.  

      I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

      by I love OCD on Fri Jun 14, 2013 at 10:39:33 AM PDT

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      •  This tactic is so ineffective (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kovie, poligirl, Aunt Martha, gerrilea
        challenged as hyperbolic, ie computers that are waiting for your next keystroke seems a stretch.
        It reminds me of people who yell about critics claiming that we are not satisfied because Obama has not done every little thing that we wanted.  


        "Justice is a commodity"

        by joanneleon on Fri Jun 14, 2013 at 10:58:25 AM PDT

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        •  I just filed a request to find out (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          poligirl, Aunt Martha

          if there's intelligent life on Neptune, therefore we don't know yet if there is...

          "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

          by kovie on Fri Jun 14, 2013 at 11:26:44 AM PDT

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        •  Oh please, if you make him (0+ / 0-)

          a hero that's your problem.  Don't get all defensive when someone points out a clay toe or two.  And why the fuck waste all this time on my very personal opinion?  I don't trust him, therefore I will smite you if you do?  It's a blog, people have opinions, they may not mirror yours.  Isn't the real point that we're arguing about irrelevancies, AGAIN, when NSA databases are the topic that needs discussion?

          I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

          by I love OCD on Fri Jun 14, 2013 at 11:30:46 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Can you show us which post (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        poligirl, Aunt Martha, gerrilea

        you are referring to here? I'd like to see that for myself to decide whether he tied two sentences together without indicating that they were separated, and changed the meaning of it.  

        Also, when were you a supporter of Greenwald, or rather when did you stop being a supporter?

        I'd appreciate a link for this.

        I was a semi-supporter of his until I read a post about an Obama speech I had heard and I thought I was going crazy because the speech and GG's take on it were completely different.  So I looked up the transcript and Glenn had tied 2 unrelated sentence fragments together and created a whole different meaning to the speech, "quoting" his edit as Obama's words.  That's Fox News shit and it pissed me off royally.  If I can't trust lefty blogs where do I go for real information?  He got called on this one and started a Twitter battle over it.  Childish.  


        "Justice is a commodity"

        by joanneleon on Fri Jun 14, 2013 at 11:02:53 AM PDT

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        •  I was a semi-supporter a couple of years ago, (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          artmartin

          never a big fan.  This was during the runup to 2012, probably early 2011.  The topic was the economy, Obama was speaking about progress being made but we have lots more to do.  Greenwald cut out the part about having more to do, including the specific "more" suggestions Obama made and wrote a screed about Obama claiming the economy was fixed, with a side of "his corporate backers are doing great" so he clearly doesn't care about Main Street suffering.  I won't search for a link because I have no idea where I found this.  Not on DKos.  It was a fluke that I'd heard the speech and noticed the discrepancies.  And it made me question Greenwald's reliability.  You don't need to agree with me on that, but you might admit that even here there have been rumblings about claims that now appear hyperbolic.  

          The point should be that creating heroes isn't the most important task, finding out what's happening with the NSA is what matters.  If they have a database with every cell conversation available to private contractors we're in a world of trouble.  If they don't, what DO they have?  Why?  What's the rationale?  Is illusory safety worth this loss of our principles?  Maybe it is, maybe we really are under constant threat and the billions spent on safety are paying dividends.  I'd like to be able to determine that for myself, please.

          I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

          by I love OCD on Fri Jun 14, 2013 at 11:23:11 AM PDT

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          •  anecdotal evidence huh. Nothing you can link to (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Aunt Martha, gerrilea

            or anything.

            you sir, seem unreliable.

            Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell. --Edward Abbey

            by greenbastard on Fri Jun 14, 2013 at 12:41:21 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  It would be good (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            poligirl, Aunt Martha, gerrilea

            if I could get the link to the post that you are making claims about so I could decide for myself whether he mischaracterized a speech.

            As for creating heroes being less important than finding out what's going on, I definitely agree with that, which is why I was wondering why you were so focused on personalities, discrediting Greenwald.  He's the messenger here, not even the primary character in all of this, and actually both he and Snowden are just the messengers.  The source material and the responses from the govt. are what we should be focused on.


            "Justice is a commodity"

            by joanneleon on Fri Jun 14, 2013 at 01:13:28 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  so then you're talking smack against Greenwald (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        poligirl, Aunt Martha, gerrilea

        figures.

        I believe atleast 2 members of congress, after being briefed here since these revelations, has said that what was reported is just the tip of the iceberg, and that they hope more people come forward.

        Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell. --Edward Abbey

        by greenbastard on Fri Jun 14, 2013 at 12:40:17 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  when a story is this big - it's not just Greenwald (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Aunt Martha, gerrilea

        who does the vetting. it will be much of the staff too. as well as was mentioned that WaPo will have (or in the old actual journalism days would have) done much the same thing.

        this kind of bombshell is never just one journalist. one may get the byline, but by no means is it one person.

        The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those that speak it. ~George Orwell

        by poligirl on Fri Jun 14, 2013 at 02:43:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  THIS IS THE PROBELM, right here: (0+ / 0-)
        ... it's not that big a deal to me.
        WE know they are collecting the Meta Data, the POTUS has already stated such.

        Got a few minutes?  Watch these two videos AND understand why META DATA is more important than what you're actually saying:

        -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

        by gerrilea on Fri Jun 14, 2013 at 06:52:33 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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