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View Diary: Yes, Congress and the president are responsible for the surveillance state (72 comments)

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  •  We are ultimately responsible (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    futurebird, Garrett, danps

    It's just that we can't accept the notion that we should be held responsible for things that we opposed.

    It's relevant that people see little danger to themselves in this.  As we are faced with more and more opportunities to wonder about the morality of privacy, our idea of privacy will most certainly change.

    There was a time when personal privacy did not include our own space, for instance.  We shared a living space.  

    But morality changes as the world changes, and as features of the world change.  The main issue we will be dealing with here is that our morality as a people is going to do away with the notion of personal privacy.  

    Just as the right wing fears the generational change that is taking place with regards to gay marriage, all of us will be subject to the generational change that will do away with privacy.  

    Does that mean I think it's okay for the NSA to spy on people without reason?  Of course not.  

    In the long term.  in the long arc.  This moment will be remembered for very little.

    If it's remembered for anything, it will be that it is remembered in the same light as the Bush wiretapping scandal.

    The Bush wiretapping scandal is what gave this administration the legal justification on which they base their claims.  

    So we got ready to change it, but really we just added a way for them to do the thing "legally."  

    Make no mistake about it.  This will happen again.  It will happen again.  It will continue happening. It is happening now.  


    by otto on Sat Jun 15, 2013 at 07:44:59 AM PDT

    •  If the end of personal privacy is accompanied (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      by an end to government secrecy and the declassification of roughly 99.9% of the "official" data presently classified for specious reasons...

      I for one would be comfortable with the trade-off.

      When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

      by PhilJD on Sat Jun 15, 2013 at 11:08:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  When the danger becomes obvious to everyone, (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kurt, GreenMother, rlochow

      it will be far too late to rein it in.

      The police state is upon us.  These surveillance programs offer up a turn-key fascist state. Bit-by-bit, it will become more difficult for those in power to resist the temptation to use the vast stores of information available to them.

      Lists of gay people.
      Lists of women who had abortions.
      Lists of people who own pit bulls.
      Lists of people who say 'sin papeles."
      Lists of people who pass by certain locations at certain times.
      Lists of Jews.
      Lists of people who say Occupy!
      Lists of people who say, "Let's climb the trees and chain ourselves there."
      Lists of Mormons.
      Lists of people.....

      Any of this could be generated at the drop of a hat.

      Democrats for Smith, when Smith is a populist progressive and Democrat Jones is the desired corporate tool. Therefore, be sure to drop those intending to vote for Smith from voter rolls.

      After what we've seen in the last 10-12 years, does anyone doubt that another Bush or Rove would hesitate to use that information?  Another Cheney or Rumsfeld?

      "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

      by YucatanMan on Sat Jun 15, 2013 at 05:10:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Who's on your List? (1+ / 0-)
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        Lists of people who speak out against corporate greed

        Lists of people who challenge the government

        Lists of people who blow whistles or who might

        Lists of people who go to the wrong church

        Lists of people who have read forbidden books

        Lists of people who have visited forbidden websites

        Lists of people who don't agree with the people making the lists.

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