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  •  I have a pet peeve about older people (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    verdeo, Dallasdoc, devis1

    who absolutely refuse to learn about things like computers and cell phones and the internet.  I'm 67 and I have two older sisters----one of whom is constantly on a rant about how "stupid" all these "gadgets" are and how "useless" they are.  The other sister is just about as bad, but not quite.  The oldest sister (who hates "gadgets" worked for years in an office so she knows WordPerfect and used a computer for that, but she's actually proud that she knows nothing about the internet and doesn't intend to ever learn about it.  It was a revelation to her when I showed her that when we were settling our mother's estate, we could access her accounts on-line and save trips to the bank.  To satisfy both of my sisters, however, we HAD to go to the banks for every single thing because they weren't aware of or familiar enough with on-line banking to be able to do it and they refused to learn.  It nearly drove me crazy.    

    The ignorance of that attitude and the failure to recognize that we live in a both "wired" and "wireless" world these days drives me up the wall.  I find myself having very limited patience with people in my age group and beyond who just consider it a bother to have to learn about something new.  For me, this stuff is mandatory to know about.  I'm definitely not on an expert level as it relates to technology of today, but I've made it my business to at least learn the basics and I've been lucky, maybe, but when I ask questions of the young folks who work in that world, I've never been treated rudely and have learned a lot just by asking questions.  

    Your comment about Feinstein made me think about I think it was Ted Stevens of Alaska, who when he was in the Senate was chair of the Technology Cmte. and he made comments like "well, there's these things called the intertubes and you send stuff through them".  I believe he also referred to e-mail as "computer letters" and also allowed as how "you could get movies delivered to your mailbox" (NetFlix).  That was years ago and so I can excuse it.  But these days?  No.  I just can't excuse that kind of ignorance.

    If this particular individual really isn't up to date on the basics, then somebody better train these folks so that they understand at a bare minimum the basic technology.  If they're going to be approving things they don't understand-----that has to stop.  

    "A voice is heard in Ramah, weeping and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children and refusing to be comforted, because they are no more." - from the prophet Jeremiah

    by 3goldens on Sat Jun 15, 2013 at 10:34:25 AM PDT

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    •  Consider This, Maybe? (1+ / 0-)
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      3goldens
      I find myself having very limited patience with people in my age group and beyond who just consider it a bother to have to learn about something new.  For me, this stuff is mandatory to know about.
      Have you considered that this "...bother to have to learn about something new..." is just a cover for the reality that, for many older folks, learning itself - thinking in this case of IT and its many manifestations - is very difficult, and thus a source of potential embarrassment, or at least a lot of frustration? So the "bother" rhetoric may be just a cover for saving face.

      I'm 71+ yo, and know a lot about IT, the Internet, how computers actually work electronically (in theory), I can open a desktop and blow the dust out, install a network card if needed (so much easier with processors that are powerful enough to allow plug-and-play), install new software, be aware what various pop-up messages mean (i.e., if critical or not), even use QuickBooks for my wife and my's businesses, including ordering same over the Internet and dealing with the upgrades and a back-up routine, and manage using two different web browsers - but I began learning about these things 20 years or so ago, and mainly am self-taught.

      It's difficult to imagine that I could pick up all this stuff from scratch without classes, and a lot of time making mistakes. Lord knows I made plenty of mistakes when I started 20 years ago!

      "Treat others as you would like them to treat you." -St. Luke 6: 31 (NEB) Christians are given a tough assignment here: Love the people you don't even like...

      by paz3 on Sat Jun 15, 2013 at 11:08:22 AM PDT

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      •  Well, my sister did take classes when (0+ / 0-)

        she was a secretary in order to learn how to use WordPerfect and I know that she also participated in various workshops when she was employed.  You may be right however----maybe she needs classes, a person she can ask questions of.  She has a daughter who lives not at all far from her (15 minutes tops) and who is very good in using technology, however, my sister will not even ask her to show her thing.  She also has a degree in Business Education and although she only taught for 3 years, she worked at least 30 years in offices as a secretary until she retired.  

        I see this resistance in some----certainly not all-----of my older friends.  There's an attitude like this:  "I'm 72 years old and I've learned all I need to know!"   For me, I don't think I'll ever have enough time to learn about the whole list of things I want to-----but I intend to never stop until my last breath.  Life is too fascinating to just stop learning and sit in a chair watching tv for hours on end.

        Also, I've tried to show both of my sisters how being able to use a computer has real benefits----like being able to access their own medical record at their doctor's office via a program called MyChart.  They can also e-mail back and forth with the doctor's nurse with questions.  That's just one thing----there are so many more things that a computer opens the door to.  But, they would rather call than sit down and figure out how to use MyChart.  I guess I just don't get that.  There's only 5 years between me and my oldest sister and it feels like an immense gulf at times.

        "A voice is heard in Ramah, weeping and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children and refusing to be comforted, because they are no more." - from the prophet Jeremiah

        by 3goldens on Sat Jun 15, 2013 at 12:02:21 PM PDT

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    •  As I noted, I don't think it is about (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      3goldens, native, Dallasdoc, devis1

      old or young.  I think that it is about aptitude.  My mother is really well educated and super smart, but when you talk with her about biology she's totally lost.  She doesn't have the aptitude for that subject.  

      Ask her about dictators in Eastern Europe and Central Asia, OTOH, and she's brilliant.  She's also never been good at understanding the inside baseball of technology, but she has always been a person who embraces it my parents bought one of the first consumer computers.  I thought they were nuts at the time.  I was the luddite in the family on that front for a while - lol.  A very boring computer programming class that we had to take in high school was the root of that - but I still got an "A" in the class because I have an aptitude for that stuff.  At the time, I just didn't see the value in it.

      Anyway, my Mother's aptitude for politics and foreign relations would have made her a brilliant Senator on many fronts, but not on this one, maybe - not without expert guidance.

      I think that you are sort of missing the larger point of this situation which is that elected officials were never supposed to be experts on every subject under the sun.  They were supposed to be people  who were called to decipher and decide issues on our behalf.  While there's not question that the number of dull tools in the shed is probably at an all time high right now, there are still some people who are super smart and sharp, but not necessarily in this arena of technology.

      I believe that the NSA is taking advantage of the fact that the people are completely left out of the debate and consideration of the matter --- and the fact is that once you get down to it, there are only a handful of people on those small intelligence committees in the House and Senate who have the innate ability to understand what they are saying.  

      It impossible to really tell how few get it, but based on which representatives who tried to warn the public prior to Snowden's disclosures, there are only two - Wyden and Udall - who both understand the technology and the potential for abuse.  Out of 600+ elected representatives in the Congress, there are TWO people.  And as long as the NSA and the Executive Branch have their way and keep everything in a Kafkaesque secret feedback loop, there probably will only ever be just two who really get it.

      I am not trying to make excuses for anyone as much as I am trying to point out that the system is set up to ensure that no competing stories interfere with whatever the NSA is telling the Congress - the fact that members blindly accept their stories is arguably a huge problem in and of itself, but there is zero hope of breaking that spell without impartial informed opinions being allowed into the realm of consideration - and we do not have that.

      Hell, they won't even tell anyone what their legal reasoning is - they are keeping that a secret - on some level that's the most telling part of the story - there aren't a lot of IT pro's in the Congress, but there are a lot of lawyers - keeping the legal reasoning secret from their scrutiny can't be an accident.

      •  Understand much better and thanks (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        inclusiveheart

        for taking the time.  Your last 4 paragraphs really say it IMO.

        "A voice is heard in Ramah, weeping and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children and refusing to be comforted, because they are no more." - from the prophet Jeremiah

        by 3goldens on Sat Jun 15, 2013 at 12:04:45 PM PDT

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