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View Diary: Woman Being Denied Citizenship Because Her Morality Doesn’t Come From Religion (180 comments)

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  •  I would, equally good naturedly, argue (6+ / 0-)

    that "social principles" are "moral" in nature, rather than "religious".

    However, I would also support the assertion that many religious people are also very moral.

    The point being that people can be moral, and being religious is a completely separate matter.

    I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
    but I fear we will remain Democrats.

    Who is twigg?

    by twigg on Sat Jun 15, 2013 at 01:44:22 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Oh I agree as to (4+ / 0-)

      moral and religious not being the same thing. So would Jesus, actually.

      But the Social Principles are

      a prayerful and thoughtful effort on the part of the General Conference to speak to human issues in the contemporary world from a sound biblical and theological foundation as historically demonstrated in United Methodist traditions. They are intended to be instructive and persuasive in the best of the prophetic spirit. The Social Principles are a call to all members of the United Methodist Church to a prayerful, studied, dialogue of faith and practice.
      I think the role that they play in my denomination would be adequate for an individual Methodist to claim an exemption from military service, or even alternative service in support of the military effort. The mechanism exists, even though we are not, technically, doctrinal pacifists.

      I have taken a full year of Law and Government Class and have determined that government and politics are my left ass cheek.-my 18 year old daughter

      by left rev on Sat Jun 15, 2013 at 01:50:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think ... (4+ / 0-)

        That if the United Methodists were the benchmark by which religious groups acted in this country, then we wouldn't need these conversations.

        I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
        but I fear we will remain Democrats.

        Who is twigg?

        by twigg on Sat Jun 15, 2013 at 01:54:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You give us far (4+ / 0-)

          too much credit, my friend. We've got some deep issues yet to work through.

          But I'm working on it!

          I have taken a full year of Law and Government Class and have determined that government and politics are my left ass cheek.-my 18 year old daughter

          by left rev on Sat Jun 15, 2013 at 01:56:36 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Hear, hear! (0+ / 0-)

            I'd recommend all of the above comments if the time limit to do so hadn't run out. I admit, I remain skeptical that our UMC doctrine of personal interpretation would move the Immigration Service -- did it move the Selective Service during the Viet Nam war? Fortunately, I turned 18 a little too late to have to test such a thing. Not that I'm certain I would have qualified anyway.

            For those still following who aren't Methodists, making personal choices of what to believe was taught by our founder. To summarize, it's a Methodist doctrine that a vital and living faith depends on four pillars: tradition, Scripture, inspiration & reason. So there are two external sources for our faith, but the other two are essentially internal -- and we specifically aren't supposed to turn off our brains on matters of faith!

            We hardly do this perfectly. My own church, for example, has people who quit a committee that simply wanted to study what the Bible says about homosexuality, to form our own opinions on whether it should be grounds for rejecting people. If we can't even talk about it -- if we can't even study the Bible on the subject -- it's hard to change. Oh, well, we're trying.

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